MP3Car.com - View Single Post - *NEW* USB Input/Output Board -- Fusion Brain

2k1Toaster · 04-12-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

As far as I can tell (and if at any point I'm wrong 2k1Toaster or greenman100 can correct me):

I'll try

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Imho, your questions may help others (like FAQ building)...but only if other people take the time to read them.

This is a good point and I encourage people to ask questions on the installation, or the concepts, or the interface between hardware/software because eventually we like like to get a user manual or FAQ going to help others who might need the same questioned answered. Who knows, maybe well get our own subforum if we prove worthy!

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Either. Even detailed shop-manual schematics don't show what sensor's inputs and outputs should be. Most sensors output a voltage (resulting from voltage dropped across itself to ground), some are more of a variable current source, some output Pulse Width Modulated signals (I couldn't believe it but they exist- Air Quality sensors in Saabs do this). Some operate with 5V inputs some operate with 12V inputs. There are many kinds, and you will need some stong fundamental knowledge of electronics to fully utilize this. This is why phidgets sell their own sensors, I believe.

Yes. Pretty much nailed it. There are no standards in car makes, and even between models there are pretty big differences sometimes. As of now, we have no plans to officially support any other sensors, allthough with electrical know-how anything is possible. If you can get a voltage output, scale it to the required maximum/minimum values, and determine a function that correctly models the value it reads in, then yes it is possible. As of now, there is no way to import a custom function into the program but it is a feature I am considering to allow greater flexability. But currently, not implemented, or even started upon.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

It would be nice for you and others if the Fusion team whipped up some example schematics, showing how connections should be made (i.e. Show how you would connect to a thermistor, Pressure detector, Accelerometer, Discrete output stuff, etc.) using a simple block diagram for the internals of the card, and more detailed on the output.

This will (hopefully

) be extremely easy. We have header pins labeled OUT 1 through 12 each 1x3. 1 pin is a voltage source, 1 is a ground, and the third is the sensor's voltage output.

Then the sensors have a 1x3 connector on it. So you take the connector, and plug it into the board. Voila. Done. You just have to worry about orientation on some sensors (like the accelerometer) in which case there will be a colour code which will be very easy to understand. This hasn't been fully thought through because we are not yet there, but this is how I envision it working:

If you look on one of the pictures, you will see 2 ULN2003A's and above those are 12 LED's, and above those some are the digital output headers. The colour code will be based something like "insert connector such that the red wire is closest to the indicatar led."

I sure hope there isn't any confusion when installing the sensors. Obviously after beta, we will have many more photos and connection instruction all pictorially as well. We tried to make it as simple as possible. The headers for inputs and outputs are in seperate locations. In the final version, we hope to colour code the headers themselves! So pretty much foolproof. And if you hook up a sensor backwards, well, nothing will happen. It wont work, but you wont fry anything. So flip it around and poof, it will work.

As for the software configuration, once it is attached, go to the configuration, then select Analog Inputs which is where the sensor is connected. Then if you plugged it in postition 1, select 1. Hit the First button and an OSK pops up and you can enter a name to refer to this sensor. If it were a temperature sensor, something tells me "Outside Temperature" is more to the point than "Analog 01".

Then the second button will popup a screen that you can choose what type of sensor it is, then some advanced configuration options such as if you wanted to do something based on what the temperature is. That sort of thing.

Very simple, or so I hope.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Climate control maybe, automatic controls would be hard, and in no way would I replace A/C controls with this card. While this card is impressive, it doesn't work while computer is off...

There is nothing stopping a manual override or parallel relays so that both the stock buttons and Fusion can work at the same time.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

OBD is serial communication, there are other components for reading OBD info into the computer. But based on that information, as obttained by ODB interface hardware, you could control many things with this card.

Maybe they could put something in the software that would make it easy to take outputs from OBD2 in the computer and affect Fusion Brains output accordingly

There is no plan to accept OBDII data in. There are other devices to this...

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

on a scale of 1 - 10, 3.07143241.

'Hard' is relative, right? For the average person, Id say it can be very useful, but as you try to control more complicated circuits, it will become more difficult. But that's ok because electronics is fun!

Indeed. I would rate it more of a 2.71828183 out of 10 with 1 being easiest and 10 being hardest.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

The discrete (On/Off) outputs from the card are outputs of electroncs that can only pass a couple hundred milliamps through them, in order to power loads larger than a small relay, you would have to use the output to turn on a small relay which connect the load to a power supply (like the battery), isolating the load's current from the card.

exactly. We dont want high amperage lines running by our USB data lines. That would be a mess. Also it allows more safety. If your car has an electrical short the relay will burn out and you are out 1 relay Moderatly

worthy

. If it was onboard, you would be out an entire Fusion.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

They chose to keep the relays seperate, to keep the module's size small. I don't think they have the relay boards ready though.

Size was also an important factor. And the relay boards will be pretty much junk a pack of relays with easy connectors and a header cable. Not too much to get ready.

Any more questions, dont hesitate to ask!

-- Nick

04-12-2007, 02:09 PM	#149
2k1Toaster Fusion Brain Creator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, but Canadian! Posts: 7,414	Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk As far as I can tell (and if at any point I'm wrong 2k1Toaster or greenman100 can correct me): I'll try Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk Imho, your questions may help others (like FAQ building)...but only if other people take the time to read them. This is a good point and I encourage people to ask questions on the installation, or the concepts, or the interface between hardware/software because eventually we like like to get a user manual or FAQ going to help others who might need the same questioned answered. Who knows, maybe well get our own subforum if we prove worthy! Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk Either. Even detailed shop-manual schematics don't show what sensor's inputs and outputs should be. Most sensors output a voltage (resulting from voltage dropped across itself to ground), some are more of a variable current source, some output Pulse Width Modulated signals (I couldn't believe it but they exist- Air Quality sensors in Saabs do this). Some operate with 5V inputs some operate with 12V inputs. There are many kinds, and you will need some stong fundamental knowledge of electronics to fully utilize this. This is why phidgets sell their own sensors, I believe. Yes. Pretty much nailed it. There are no standards in car makes, and even between models there are pretty big differences sometimes. As of now, we have no plans to officially support any other sensors, allthough with electrical know-how anything is possible. If you can get a voltage output, scale it to the required maximum/minimum values, and determine a function that correctly models the value it reads in, then yes it is possible. As of now, there is no way to import a custom function into the program but it is a feature I am considering to allow greater flexability. But currently, not implemented, or even started upon. Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk It would be nice for you and others if the Fusion team whipped up some example schematics, showing how connections should be made (i.e. Show how you would connect to a thermistor, Pressure detector, Accelerometer, Discrete output stuff, etc.) using a simple block diagram for the internals of the card, and more detailed on the output. This will (hopefully ) be extremely easy. We have header pins labeled OUT 1 through 12 each 1x3. 1 pin is a voltage source, 1 is a ground, and the third is the sensor's voltage output. Then the sensors have a 1x3 connector on it. So you take the connector, and plug it into the board. Voila. Done. You just have to worry about orientation on some sensors (like the accelerometer) in which case there will be a colour code which will be very easy to understand. This hasn't been fully thought through because we are not yet there, but this is how I envision it working: If you look on one of the pictures, you will see 2 ULN2003A's and above those are 12 LED's, and above those some are the digital output headers. The colour code will be based something like "insert connector such that the red wire is closest to the indicatar led." I sure hope there isn't any confusion when installing the sensors. Obviously after beta, we will have many more photos and connection instruction all pictorially as well. We tried to make it as simple as possible. The headers for inputs and outputs are in seperate locations. In the final version, we hope to colour code the headers themselves! So pretty much foolproof. And if you hook up a sensor backwards, well, nothing will happen. It wont work, but you wont fry anything. So flip it around and poof, it will work. As for the software configuration, once it is attached, go to the configuration, then select Analog Inputs which is where the sensor is connected. Then if you plugged it in postition 1, select 1. Hit the First button and an OSK pops up and you can enter a name to refer to this sensor. If it were a temperature sensor, something tells me "Outside Temperature" is more to the point than "Analog 01". Then the second button will popup a screen that you can choose what type of sensor it is, then some advanced configuration options such as if you wanted to do something based on what the temperature is. That sort of thing. Very simple, or so I hope. Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk Climate control maybe, automatic controls would be hard, and in no way would I replace A/C controls with this card. While this card is impressive, it doesn't work while computer is off... There is nothing stopping a manual override or parallel relays so that both the stock buttons and Fusion can work at the same time. Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk OBD is serial communication, there are other components for reading OBD info into the computer. But based on that information, as obttained by ODB interface hardware, you could control many things with this card. Maybe they could put something in the software that would make it easy to take outputs from OBD2 in the computer and affect Fusion Brains output accordingly There is no plan to accept OBDII data in. There are other devices to this... Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk on a scale of 1 - 10, 3.07143241. 'Hard' is relative, right? For the average person, Id say it can be very useful, but as you try to control more complicated circuits, it will become more difficult. But that's ok because electronics is fun! Indeed. I would rate it more of a 2.71828183 out of 10 with 1 being easiest and 10 being hardest. Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk The discrete (On/Off) outputs from the card are outputs of electroncs that can only pass a couple hundred milliamps through them, in order to power loads larger than a small relay, you would have to use the output to turn on a small relay which connect the load to a power supply (like the battery), isolating the load's current from the card. exactly. We dont want high amperage lines running by our USB data lines. That would be a mess. Also it allows more safety. If your car has an electrical short the relay will burn out and you are out 1 relay Moderatly worthy . If it was onboard, you would be out an entire Fusion. Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk They chose to keep the relays seperate, to keep the module's size small. I don't think they have the relay boards ready though. Size was also an important factor. And the relay boards will be pretty much junk a pack of relays with easy connectors and a header cable. Not too much to get ready. Any more questions, dont hesitate to ask! -- Nick __________________ Fusion Brain USB I/O Board with 12 Digital Outputs, 10 Analogue Inputs, 4 Digital Inputs and only 68mm x 68mm! Now Shipping Worldwide!!!