Rough tune on your EQ - Page 2

JasonWW · 02-04-2006, 12:49 PM

Still trying to get that 3402? The H510 is better.

Anyway....

The front speakers and subs should have priority. Do all the steps like I mentioned. Keep the rear fill off the whole time. Once you have the whole system sounding as good as you can without the EQ, then plot your speakers in car response. Depending on the curve you have will decide how you should divide up the EQ bands. If your lucky you may only need 4 bands for the front 2 channels. Then you can use the other 3 bands for the rear fill. If you need more than 4 bands to do up the front speakers and sub properly, then set it up so that all 7 bands are on the front speakers/subs.

How is your signal divided? Are the subs running off the 2 front channels and the rear fill running off the 2 rear channels? If not, that's how I would recommend doing it. Let me know if that doesn't work for you.

Typically you will end up with most of your bands focusing on the under 300Hz region as it's the most troublesome area. Once you get the main speakers set up then you can turn on the rear fill and set their volume level and see how well they integrate with the main speakers.

Genesisfactor · 02-04-2006, 08:27 PM

wait wait wait...you want my subs on the front two channels? Intresting approach though i can see why, as they are the channels we're messing with. I wish i could attach a word doc (my wiring diagram is a flow chart in word that i was too lazy to convert to PDF and then jpeg).

I'm basically running an NX on 4 speakers setup (front and rear, FR from now on, FRS means front rear subs)to the 3401/3402 (hehe, look at me downgrade

) and from there FR to an Audicontrol 3xs and then FRS from there. The FR goes to a 4040DSM and the subs goes to a basslink.

Now, given that particualr set up, and a soon to be replete supply of RCAs, i can either have the fronts go into the EQ for 7 lovely PEQ channels to play with, as the rears go straight to the 3xs, or have everything hit the PEQ, everythign hit the 3xs and call it a day. In the end, the crossover is the only variable i can't figure out as it's complicating things in my mind and DAI, so i really should take it easy on the complications...but it was working and $20...

What i kinda was hoping to do, based on what i read and learned is pretty much what you told me to do, excpet you wree muhc more helpful with the specifics, which is good and as always as it means i didn't waste my time reading somethign some posted to mess with little upstarts heads, like myself. However, i believe, for some reason that the alpine's rears cover the latter 4 an the fronts do the former 3. I dont' know why they would do that, but hey, i'm not a muiltimillion dollar car company, i just buy stuff from them...or just from someone who bought it from someone who bought it from them. We'll see if i win. IF not, i will try again, and agian, and again. Maybe even take you up and chekc out your H510.

EQ the fronts to flat, as they are priority, and then adjust the rears to match. I was wondering wouldn't an unequalized rear produce the smae problems you had initally, even though they reflect off the back? Or am i supposed to make sure they're low enough to be certian that doesn't happen. See, that right there is counter intuitive as the rears were turned up in almost every car i've been in, though it makes perfect sense looking at my 5.1 HT system (huge multi component fronts, little itty bitty rears).

Also, when i finally do this all, after i do all this lovely equalizing and crossing over without John Edwards, is it then that i adjust the gains on the amps and the basslink? ...which is and amp and therefore i'm being redundant.

Finally, after i flatten out everyhing, what happens when i decide on my NX, to play with the eq settings (the plan was faltte it out with the PEQ and then make it awesome with the A2 NX). But since the NX is restting everything BEFORE the PEQ, would it not adversely affect the music, or am i to custom eq everything to fit the car.

Also, i'm not sure if you have an NX, but is it possible that the time scaling can be used like the high end, sub competition, HU components. Like where you cna time scale to your position? How would that adversely affect your EQ options?

See, the idea behimd me getting all this stuff is this: If one day i ever decide, hey, i have some time and another half K of extra cash, let's see what i can do after investing in a few good amps and much better speakers, i wouldn't mind seeing how far i could try in the comp circuit. Yes, i want to be like Red, she's my hero

. Will too. But really, it would be an expensive fun hobby. Just thinking ahead and maximizing my possibilities.

So now, as i hit "Post quick reply" and chuckle a bit, PM me your MSN.

JasonWW · 02-05-2006, 09:44 AM

OK, I PMed you, maybe we can get your stuff all sorted out THEN we'll worry about the EQ.

Genesisfactor · 02-05-2006, 12:56 PM

lol, PMed back! See, look at that, i'm just messing with everyone's heads

BTW, what the hell, ofcourse that is going to rock the poor little alpin ei want. The thing has 3 optical ins!

jerryvz · 06-06-2006, 10:13 PM

After recently installing a new system, I'm working on the tuning. This
thread has been very helpful. I have the following system:

Head: Alpine CDA-9857
Amp : Audison VRx 4.300
Processor: Alpine PXA-H701; Controller: RUX-C701
Sub: JL Audio stealthbox - (2) 10W3v2-D4

I used the Alan Parson Sound Check2 CD with a Radio Shack Sound Level
Meter. Attached is the curve I got - any suggestions?

Thanks!
Jerry

JasonWW · 06-07-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by jerryvz

After recently installing a new system, I'm working on the tuning. This
thread has been very helpful.

I used the Alan Parson Sound Check2 CD with a Radio Shack Sound Level
Meter. Attached is the curve I got - any suggestions?
Thanks!
Jerry

Jerry, what vehicle is this in?
Have you already set the amp gains to smooth the response as much as possible?
Is this with no EQ correction?

The peak at around 4-5K can give the sound some real bite. Do trumphets or other horns in that region sound harsh at higher volumes? If so you may drop 4-5K down 3dB (not the 5 or 6dB that the response curve is showing).
Set your volume to about 85-90% of max (assuming max is at the systems limit of distortion) and listen to track 44 the sweep from 20-20K. Do you hear any drop outs or peaks? At any point does the sound break up or sound distorted? Anything that is really noticable you need to make a note of and then go back and find that particular freq.

The bass guitar track (assuming it's the same as the first disc) should tell you whether that little rise at 50hz is a problem or not. You don't want it to sound boomy. Each note he strums should be clearly defined from one to the next. If one note is noticable louder then you might need to move that freq down a few dB. Accuracy aside. A little extra bass around 50-70hz can sound pretty good in a moving car listening to non-audiophile CD's or just the radio. It can be a bit of user preference.

Aside from that little peak at 4-5K, it looks really smooth. As long as you have the tweeters, mids and subs adjusted so that they blend together and that no one speaker is noticable louder or quieter than the rest, you may not have much to tweak.

You might just go in and tweak a little over a broader range to suit your personal preferences and the type of music you like to listen to.

I'm going to have to go back and use the Radio Shack SPL meter on my system to refresh my memory of what a fairly tone balanced vehicle should look like.

Tell me what you think of the way your system sounds. Anything that stands out that you don't like or don't know if it sounds right?

jerryvz · 06-07-2006, 09:12 AM

> what vehicle is this in?

A Nissan 350Z

> Have you already set the amp gains to smooth the response as much as > possible?

I just started the tuning - I'm going to go through and double check.

> Is this with no EQ correction?

That is correct.

> The peak at around 4-5K can give the sound some real bite. Do
> trumphets or other horns in that region sound harsh at higher volumes?

Yes. The sound is definitely on the harsh side. I just got the RUX-C701
installed yesterday. I listen to all types of music Cowboy Junkies->
Grateful Dead->NIN. Mostly live recordings. I was listening to
Dani California (Red Hot Chili Peppers) this morning and when they get
to the chorus it is definitely harsh. I would like to get a warmer sound.
I grew up listening to my fathers McIntosh tube equipment with Klipsch
corner horn speakers so my taste is definitely on the "bright" side.

Great suggestions. This will help give me a solid place to start.

Thanks!
Jerry

PS> I will post the curves after some adjustments.

BTW anyone looking for a test CD I found the Alan Parsons CD at all
types of places at ridiculous prices. However, I did find it on the
Alan Parsons website for a very reasonable prices - details below.

http://www.alanparsonsmusic.com/home.html
Click on "AP Shop"
Click on "Misc Items"
Sound Check 2 $35

JasonWW · 06-07-2006, 09:56 AM

For a warmer sound you want it less aggressive around 4-5K. Maybe drop 3.15 a couple dB. Basically reduce the hump from 2.5K to 6.3K. Normally you don't want to jump the gun and just cut it 8dB. Just reduce it to a smaller bump for starters and see how it sounds. If you think it helped, but it needs more, then just reduce the small hump some more to flatten it out.

Bright usually means the very top end. I don't know where your tweeters are or where their aiming, nor do I know where you had the SPL meter. Usually the tweeters angle and location are not perfect which tends to roll off the top end above 12K or so. You may need to try increasing 16K and 20K by a few db. Too much will just increase the noise floor (hiss) unecessarily, so you'll have to find a compromise.

If you mean bright as something else, then let me know.

You say the chorus was harsh sounding? Do you have any idea what freq range that would be in? If this was at high volume it may have been resonances from the door panel. I've seen that happen in the past. Is it still harsh sounding at lower volumes?

What you can do is play individual test tones through just that speaker (pull rca out of sub amp) and put your ear next to the panel. Go from the bottom x-over freq on up until the tweeter comes in. Do it at about 70-80% volume. If you hear any vibrations or harmonics, you can press on the door panel and see if they go away.

Does the chorus sound as if it is breaking up, maybe? Hard for me to figure that one out.
It is pretty hard to figure these things out without actually being there and listening for myself. I'll do what I can to help, but this tuning thread is obviously limiting.

When you say you found that CD at ridiculous prices, do you mean high or low? $35 is about right for a new disc.

RedGTiVR6 · 06-07-2006, 10:14 AM

great thread Jason, you are a much more patient person than I am, and have much more time than I...lol (which doesn't say you have much time at all, mind you)

I'd love to see this thread stickied, even though those of us who go through the hastle of tuning to this extent are far and few between on this board.

JasonWW · 06-07-2006, 10:28 AM

Jan, if you have some tips, suggestions or answers for someone asking, feel free to jump in.

Tuning a sound system over the internet.
Seems kinda silly.

And this is just to get things started. There's so much more to get a system really dialed in. Hopefully, this thread will point people in the right direction and get their stuff sounding better than it was before. I think that's about all I can hope for, because tuning over the web can only go so far.

RedGTiVR6 · 06-07-2006, 10:42 AM

I'm still in the stages of learning all I can about tuning, it's one area I'm sorely lacking skills in, but I'm working on it..hehe

everything looked to be spot on from what I've read so far, but again, I'm no expert on this side of things.

I think that more than anything, this thread might just push some people to try it and who knows, it might just bite them and get them more interested in quality sound.

jerryvz · 06-07-2006, 01:11 PM

> For a warmer sound you want it less aggressive around 4-5K. Maybe
> drop 3.15 a couple dB.

That is where I'm going to start.

> Bright usually means the very top end. I don't know where your tweeters
> are or where their aiming, nor do I know where you had the SPL meter.
> Usually the tweeters angle and location are not perfect which tends to
> roll off the top end above 12K or so. You may need to try increasing 16K
> and 20K by a few db. Too much will just increase the noise floor (hiss)
> unecessarily, so you'll have to find a compromise.

Yes that is what I mean. The tweeters are in the stock location right now
which is in the corner of the window and top of the door panel. Not a
perfect location or angle but I'm to going to see what I can do before
I try a more aggressive mounting. Overall the sound of the system is
nice with good forward imaging. Just want to do some tweaks.

I was holding the SPL meeter about head level near the center of the car.

Today at lunch I was listening to a live DMB CD and when the Sax jumped
in it was too much - definitely going to start by turning down the 4-5K
range.

> You say the chorus was harsh sounding? Do you have any idea what freq
> range that would be in? If this was at high volume it may have been
> resonances from the door panel. I've seen that happen in the past. Is it
> still harsh sounding at lower volumes?

Sounds good a lower volumes. There is no distortion. It's hard to
describe but it is just not a pleasant warm sound - ear fatigue.

> It is pretty hard to figure these things out without actually being there
> and listening for myself. I'll do what I can to help, but this tuning thread
> is obviously limiting.

Agreed. The SPL provides a good visual reference to identify some areas
of large disconnect. However, it is difficult to discuss the fine points
of properly tuning a system without hearing it. However, this thread does
have a lot of great "cookbook" ideas to get someone like me (novice)
moving in the right direction. Thanks for the help - it is really great!

> When you say you found that CD at ridiculous prices, do you mean high
> or low? $35 is about right for a new disc.

High prices.

Thanks!
Jerry

RedGTiVR6 · 06-07-2006, 02:30 PM

one thing to consider. if a certain frequency is too harsh, check and make sure that your speakers aren't trying to reproduce the same frequencies (overlapping) because that WILL make those frequencies sound harsh.

This is where you will need to mess with X-over points and slopes.

jerryvz · 06-19-2006, 03:31 PM

I finally got some time over the weekend to tune the system. I knocked down the high 4K frequency just a little. However, I think "Red GTi VR6" hit it right on. When I adjusted the cross overs I was able to get rid of the "harshness" of the sound. Now I'm very happy with the fullness of the sound stage and the imaging is very good - dead center.

Here are the adjustments I made to the cross overs. I'm new to this so any recommendations of other setups to try would be appreciated:

Fronts:
HPfc : 50
HPslope : 6
LPfc : 20K
LPslope : 6

Sub:
HPfc: 20
HPslope: 6
LPfc : 63
LPslope : 12

I'm really happy with the sound now. I'm going to keep my hands off the knobs for a little while to give myself a chance to enjoy the system instead of fiddling with it. Then I will try some other options. I really did not know what I was doing with the slopes - that will be something I will likely tweak. Any guidance?

Thanks,
Jerry

BTW, before I started the cross overs were set as follows:

Fronts:
HPfc : 20
HPslope : -
LPfc : 4K
LPslope : -

Sub:
HPfc: 20
HPslope: -
LPfc : 80
LPslope : 18

RedGTiVR6 · 06-19-2006, 04:21 PM

Hrmm - the fronts seem a little low

maybe try crossing them over at 100 and a 12-18db/oct slope?

could keep the mids from bottoming out

by making that change you would be preventing the mids from overlapping with the sub as much, this making your bass less boomy

(of course, all of this depends upon your install, speakers, position, etc as well)

might tinker with the subs rolling off at 18-24 too

let us know if you do and if it sounds any better or worse!

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