Rough tune on your EQ - Page 5

JasonWW · 12-05-2006, 10:01 PM

Man, I don't know. Did the 2 companies merge or did one put the other out of business?
RS has a big online service, have you tried ordering one online?

Check ebay, I see a lot of them.

FyreDaug · 12-06-2006, 03:37 PM

found one thanks jason, didnt even think to search for it, its the same unit too

DeadlyAP1 · 01-06-2007, 08:20 AM

I am about to do a tune on my system using the Rat shack Db meter method. I have a SoundBlaster Live external card. Both Winamp and the soundcard have their own EQ's. I am wondering if I should tune the EQ in Winamp or on the soundcard first. Or, should I leave one of those EQ's off totaly and just tune one of them?? If so, which one? Thanks for the help.

RedGTiVR6 · 01-06-2007, 09:16 AM

turn one off and leave it off, don't touch it.

as to which one...if one has more bands, use it. Else, you're going to have to have choose.

JasonWW · 01-06-2007, 10:09 AM

I've messed around with the one in winamp and it kinda sucks. I'm just not into the software EQ's unless maybe the standalone software ones are any good. I still think an outboard EQ is better. I keep the sound system and the PC seperate.

So try the sound card one and see if it's any good.

You might even be able to turn the winamp one off completely. I think there is a check box you can select.

DeadlyAP1 · 01-06-2007, 10:30 AM

Thank you for the quick replies. There is a check box to shut off the Winamp EQ. I will do that and tune the soundcard's EQ. thanks again.

DeadlyAP1 · 01-15-2007, 08:28 PM

When I started tuning my system, I thought it would be great if I had an excel spreadsheet that would do most of the work for me. So, I made one that would autmaticly factor in the corrections and then make a nice line chart to show me where my peaks and dips were. I put the link to it below and I hope someone else gets good use from it. Feel free to add it to the original post if you think it will help.

DeadlyAP1's Rough Tune Helper

chopstick89 · 01-30-2007, 02:15 PM

Hi Jason, I was wondering if you could give me some expert advice.

My equipment is Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5" in the stock door and tweeter (triangle on window) locations. I power them with a JL 300/4 bridged to 2 channels (tuned gains with voltage meter, crossover set at ~80 with 24db slope). My HD is an old Alpine 9830 which unfortunately only has a 4-Band Parametric equalizer.

I was going to do the rough test as you suggested, but my fear is that I can only adjust 4 frequencies and that might make it not worth while to spend $50 on equipment + $30 or so on a sound cd. I called around and its basically ~$50 for a professional tune by-ear.

My problem with the sound is that its simply too bright. I lowered the tweeters on the passive crossover by I believe -4db and its still too bright. When I play something with strong vocals (Mariah, etc) the high tones are very sharp and extremely clear. My friends said that even without the music blasting, they can make out every single word of the song from far away. The problem is I have never heard someone else after market system so I don't have something to reference it to.

My question is how do I solve it? I would assume that its bright because the tweeters are closer to my ear than the mids. I know I can't fix that without a kick panel, but would turning the high frequencies down via EQ do the same effect or will it simply ruin my sound altogether.

Do you suggest 1) buying the equipment to rough test it myself, 2) taking to a shop so they can tune by ear, 3) leave it flat because its normal with an after market system. Or maybe an additional suggestion?

I encourage everyone else to please give me your opinions also, I would appreciate it.

Thank-you for the help!

JasonWW · 01-30-2007, 10:01 PM

You probably don't need to pay anyone to tune it for you. I had to download the manual on the 9830 to see what kind of EQ it had. You should be able to do what you need with it.

First thing is to figure out what range of freqs are too high. Your not going to hear vocals through the tweeters. Vocals are going to be from the mids. So you might try disconnecting your tweets and seeing if the vocals are too bright still. If they are you need to tweak the range from maybe 2K-5K. Our ears are particulary sensitive to these freqs. If the vocals sound fine, then it may be the tweets are still too loud.

So determine if it's the tweets or mids that are too loud. If the tweets, you may be able to aim them better (I don't know what car you have) to make the sound more smooth and maybe image better. That's what I would do before adjusting the 9830 EQ.

If we need to use the EQ we still need to know what freqs are louder than they should be. With a parametric EQ, what you do is figure out what range is too high.

FOR EXAMPLE, lets say 2K-6K is the problem area that needs to be toned down. Then you would use Band3 on the EQ and set it to the center freq which would be 4K. Then you adjust the Q which determines how wide a range of freqs to the left and to the right of the center freq are effected. The Q can either control a narrow band or a wide band and is adjustable. Then you adjust the level which is how much you want to cut or boost that range.

The choices in Q for Band3 are 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. I'm not sure, but these may refer to the number of octaves they effect. So with a center freq of 4K and you want to also effect 2K-6K then you would probably set the Q to 1 then set the cut level a few notches down and see how it sounds. You can then switch the Q to 2 and 3 just to see the effect it makes.

Anyway, the first thing I would do is figure out what freqs are too loud and need to be reduced. Listen to a music CD (make sure all the tone controls and LOUDNESS button is turned off as well) where you can hear the harshness. Then play those downloadable test tones and try and match the freqs.

chopstick89 · 01-31-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonWW

You probably don't need to pay anyone to tune it for you. I had to download the manual on the 9830 to see what kind of EQ it had. You should be able to do what you need with it.

First thing is to figure out what range of freqs are too high. Your not going to hear vocals through the tweeters. Vocals are going to be from the mids. So you might try disconnecting your tweets and seeing if the vocals are too bright still. If they are you need to tweak the range from maybe 2K-5K. Our ears are particulary sensitive to these freqs. If the vocals sound fine, then it may be the tweets are still too loud.

So determine if it's the tweets or mids that are too loud. If the tweets, you may be able to aim them better (I don't know what car you have) to make the sound more smooth and maybe image better. That's what I would do before adjusting the 9830 EQ.

If we need to use the EQ we still need to know what freqs are louder than they should be. With a parametric EQ, what you do is figure out what range is too high.

FOR EXAMPLE, lets say 2K-6K is the problem area that needs to be toned down. Then you would use Band3 on the EQ and set it to the center freq which would be 4K. Then you adjust the Q which determines how wide a range of freqs to the left and to the right of the center freq are effected. The Q can either control a narrow band or a wide band and is adjustable. Then you adjust the level which is how much you want to cut or boost that range.

The choices in Q for Band3 are 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. I'm not sure, but these may refer to the number of octaves they effect. So with a center freq of 4K and you want to also effect 2K-6K then you would probably set the Q to 1 then set the cut level a few notches down and see how it sounds. You can then switch the Q to 2 and 3 just to see the effect it makes.

Anyway, the first thing I would do is figure out what freqs are too loud and need to be reduced. Listen to a music CD (make sure all the tone controls and LOUDNESS button is turned off as well) where you can hear the harshness. Then play those downloadable test tones and try and match the freqs.

First and foremost, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to me question. I went out and got the Alan Parson Sound Check CD and I have identified that the 5k tone is the harshest. I played around with the Q and you were right, 1 seems to reduce the bands around giving me some more control on other frequencies. I tried to measure the frequencies by "loudness-to-my-ear" and I adjusted the 4k frequency down -5db with Q at 1 and that seems to sound the best. That frequency is very hard to work with because it creates this ringing in my ear and I need to take breaks to neutralize it.

I feel like that is the only frequency I need to touch, but I'm not sure as to how many db's I should really lower it. I feel like the more its lowered the less liveliness there is in the music. For example, at -3db music sounds great, but there comes a point where some tones get harsh. From that point I can keep reducing till all the harshness is gone, but then I feel like I'm mudding up the parts where its not harsh. I'm not quite sure if I'm explaining it correctly.

Being as I have never tuned an EQ before, does a -5db setting seem out of the ordinary considering that the tweeters are already set at -4b? If you think a more "common" number is -3db or -4db I will just adjust it there and be done with it.

Thank-you again!

JasonWW · 01-31-2007, 08:50 PM

No, -5 is not that odd. Different speakers in different vehicles create a variety of unique circumstances. So no big deal.

What you could try is cutting it 3dB like you said, but maybe try shifting the center freq to 6K and see how it sounds.

You may also want to bring the tweeter back up from the -4 to maybe -2 or 0 and then try adjusting the 4K or 6K center freq. There are a lot of combinations you can try so you'll just have to experiment to find the right combination.

pg_rider · 02-09-2007, 10:45 AM

Hope it's not too late to reply to this thread! I really got a lot out of all the replies and spent about two hours in my car last night doing some playing. It's a '93 Mitsubishi 3000GT with a Pioneer DEH-P6500 head unit, basic Alpine speakers front and rear (not sure of the model), and an Infinity Basslink (which I just installed, which is why I'm doing so much research). A modest system I realize, but I'm not looking for a world-beater; just a good-sounding system. Speaking of, my starting point before reading this thread was with all the EQ and loudness controls maxed out cuz I thought it sounded best that way! It sounded okay and wasn't distorting, but I was getting some decent hiss on the higher frequencies for sure. Also, this put my volume control on the head unit at number 10 (out of maybe 50)...

Anyway, I ran a test CD that I've had since like 1990 in my car and used my Radio Shack digital SPL meter to take some measurements. I was really surprised by what I found. First, I zeroed out all the EQ settings, turned off the loudness control, set the sub crossover on my HU to 80 Hz (with the crossover on the sub itself at 125 Hz to basically defeat it), the HPF on the HU to 80 Hz, and the subwoofer gain at it's midpoint. Before measuring I listened to some music this way and it sounded pretty decent... maybe lacking a little treble...

So I place the meter on a tripod on the drivers seat and I crawl in the back and start playing tones. I used the 1000 Hz tone to set the volume to register 80 dB, then started with 30 Hz. 30 Hz was around 90 dB, 40 Hz was like 95 dB, and 50 Hz was 99 dB! From there things went back closer to normal, between 75 and 85 dB up until 10k where things quickly dropped.

One thing I noticed was that the readings above 1000 Hz would change WILDLY depending on where my head was! If I moved my head just a few inches the dB would go up or down by 5 dB! At that point I re-oriented the meter so I could read the display from outside the car through the drivers side window. I got out of the car and re-measured. Again, the bass was super high, then things leveled out (although with a pretty good dip around 500-800 Hz), then rolled off sharply above 10k. At least the readings were consistent and stable with me outside the car.

I tried lowering the sub gain until the bass readings were closer to 90 dB and then listened to some music. It was so damn thin sounding, as if there was no sub at all! So.... I'm pretty sure my test CD is junk -- it must have the bass tones recorded at much higher levels. I ended up going back to my starting point, then added +1 on the treble on my 3-band EQ (set to 10k I think) and +1 on the other treble control (set to 8k I think). Also went to -1 on the midrange of the 3-band, set to 500 Hz. This gave me the treble I was looking for and everything was sounding good. Also, this put my volume setting on the HU for normal listening at around 25 out of 50 (it used to be 10 when I had all the settings maxed out

).

So... I definitely feel like the system is set up better -- no more hiss, and nice smooth sound. Still, I'd like to get some accurate test tones and do a final check. Any suggestions?

JasonWW · 02-10-2007, 01:05 AM

It's OK to have a hump in the response below 100Hz. The size of your cars interior will reinforce certain low frequencies. This called cabin gain. The sweet spot in my TA is 55-60Hz. Most vehicles are between 40 and 80 depending on size. It also depends on what you listen to. I have an accurate setting on my EQ preset and then a couple more with varying amounts of bass centered around 60Hz. I only use the accurate setting when listening to classical (Telarc) or an audiophile CD that is recorded accurately. The bass isn't weak on those, but most other music is pretty weak on the bass so I use my bass enhanced presets for everyday listening.

I keep my EQ settings above 100Hz the same for everyday listening as I do for the audiophile recordings. I only alter the bass for the different music types.

It's good your using 25 of 50 as opposed to 10 of 50 on the volume. I'm guessing you have no amps and are powering the non sub speakers from the headunit? If that's the case then it's fine. If you had an amp on them I would suggest turning down the gain so you could make the max volume 40-45 of the 50. That will help to get rid of the hiss even more. The hiss is basically your noise floor. Soft music or sounds can be hidden by it, plus it's just not good to hear it.

If you can get your hands on any of the IASCA test CD's along with it's liner notes, they can really help out with tuning, but they won't have the 1/3 octave test tones.

archaic0 · 06-08-2007, 04:04 AM

Anyone still watching this thread, it's a bit old but I just found it.

I was wondering if this tuning should be done at speed instead of in dead quiet.

I realize the road noise at 70mph will be a huge 'problem' but if that's the environment that you're listening to music in the majority of the time, then wouldn't there be some logic to tuning at 70mph?

Just curious.

I have that RS meter and I was planning on using it to check out road noise and my system's characteristics before and after a noise barrier treatment. I haven't decided what exactly to use, but I've found some really great threads on the subject and I'll go from there. Plus, I'm adding a second sub in short order and I want to see the numbers on how things change.

One last question... are the terms dB and SPL interchangable? Like at a bass competition is the SPL they are trying to achieve just refering to a particular dB sound level for a given frequency? Like achieving 120 decibels for 80hz or something?

Thanks in advance!

RedGTiVR6 · 06-08-2007, 08:14 AM

I cannot recomend tuning while driving.

The ONLY way I would recomend it is if somoene else is driving, and even then, if you're going to tune like that, you're probably going to be tuning for the drivers seat, so you had better trust your friends ears.

Rather than go through all of that hastle, just tune sitting still. I'd say that 99.9999% of people out there do this. That will give you a base line. Once you start driving and hear some differences, stop and make adjustments.

SPL is sound pressure level.
dB is the measurement unit for SPL.

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