Software tunning - KX + VST + ?Asio?

BenOBS · 05-14-2007, 12:16 PM

Hi,

I would like to know if I do it right...

Here's my setup, stereo right now but will need 7 channel for my full active setup:

Winamp -> HQSoftProc 48/16 -> DirectSound (KX 0/1) -> KX DSP (route SRC output 0/1 to Asio input 0/1) -> Console (From input 1/2* through VST Plugins to output 3/4*) -> KX DSP (route SRC output 2/3 to K2lt Front Speaker Jack output)

*Console number begin by 1 vs Kx begin by 0, so KX 0/1 mean 1/2 in console.

Is it right and optimal ?
Any unwanted resampling?

So, to get my active setup I just need Frequancy Allocator and root the signal to 5/6 7/8 9/10 in Console and then FXbus 4/5 6/7 8/9 to jack?

Am I right to say that asio (for playing music) is only usefull to get VST support and we dont really care about low-latency?

Thanks in advance!

hithere · 05-14-2007, 02:26 PM

Calling RedGti, come in Red, do you read?

Felix509 · 05-14-2007, 07:52 PM

Are you using HQSoftProc to output at 48/16?? If so, it is not being useful as you music is most likely already at 48/16.. Now if you would resample to 88/24 or 96/24, now you may here some improvement in the music...

Resampling to 24 bits would help if you are using the a digital volume control, like the one in Winamp.(although it may be completely inaudible, it is the theory of doing it right)

I find the resampling to a higher sample rate make the music more spacious and the acoustic music sound much more like acoustic music.. My opinion there..

I have no experience with KX, but it looks like you are on the right track with your routing..

BenOBS · 05-14-2007, 07:55 PM

I resample to 48/16 because audigy dsp only process that type of stream and this resampling algo is'nt as good as HQsofProc. But i dont know if the signal is resampled after HQSoftProc...

durwood · 05-14-2007, 10:16 PM

The only thing you might need to use in addition to what you have is a program called Virtual Audio Cable. I am not 100% positive on this, but it is of my understanding that you need to "capture" the wav audio stream and send it to ASIO. Virtual audio cable acts as a secondary input soundcard for sound cards that don't have this "internal routing" feature. Some M-audio cards have it, Audiotrak/ESI-pro has it on most of their cards, and RME as it. I didn't know you were going to try to use Allocator instead of KXproject drivers by itself.

ironfinger · 05-15-2007, 12:31 AM

If you're using Vitual Cable to send your player's(winamp) signal to Console, you will need to download Asio4all as well. Asio4all allows Console to see the virtual cable you create as an asio device. Without it, you will not be able to use the Vcable as an input source for your VST effects.

Also, what computer are you going to use? I found my 1.5ghz Via chipset incapable of powering this type of setup

I had everything set up and ready to go to.. even purchased the full version of Virtual Cable...only to see the computer go chug-a-lug.

durwood · 05-15-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ironfinger

If you're using Vitual Cable to send your player's(winamp) signal to Console, you will need to download Asio4all as well. Asio4all allows Console to see the virtual cable you create as an asio device. Without it, you will not be able to use the Vcable as an input source for your VST effects.

Also, what computer are you going to use? I found my 1.5ghz Via chipset incapable of powering this type of setup

I had everything set up and ready to go to.. even purchased the full version of Virtual Cable...only to see the computer go chug-a-lug.

Exactly. That is why the kxproject method is good for slow computers. All the processing is done by the soundcard processor. Don't even bother trying to use the ASIO/console/Allocator method if you don't have at least a P4 1.5 and up or equivalent AMD processor.

BenOBS · 05-15-2007, 10:03 AM

I have a Athlon X2 4200+ whit 1gb ram, so power isnt a probleme...

I dont understand why(and how) I need use VAC... Because console work...

Right now, the way i understand it, the audio stream coming from winamp goes directly to the soundcard (by directsound), then in KX, I record this stream in ASIO (by the KX asio input) and then it goes (as an asio stream) in Console and it finaly get back to KX to get routed to the jacks...

But im not sure if using Directsound as winamp output is the best methode to achieve best SQ... But, on the other side, Im a bit confuse about Asio. Asio look to be use full when latency is important (like whit live music). But why is it usefull whit audio playback?

*Ill take some pic of my DSP/Console...

durwood · 05-15-2007, 10:45 AM

I havent tried the kxdrivers with console so if you got the routing part working then VAC is not needed. Like I said I wasn't 100% sure on that.

VST plugins only work in ASIO. ASIO bypasses the windows kxmixer which is known to affect sound quality.

BenOBS · 05-15-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by durwood

I havent tried the kxdrivers with console so if you got the routing part working then VAC is not needed. Like I said I wasn't 100% sure on that.

VST plugins only work in ASIO. ASIO bypasses the windows kxmixer which is known to affect sound quality.

Okay, but by using the directsound output at first, does this mean the audio stream get by the kxmixer?

Here's the pics:

BenOBS · 05-16-2007, 11:27 AM

I have a winamp output named "waveout". I can specify the KX 0/1 output and it work. Does someone know if this "waveout" bypass the windows Kmixer and leave the signal intact??

EDIT, found this on winamp forum:
In win2k/xp (WDM), waveOut and DirectSound are just 2 different pathes of passing PCM data to windows kernel mixer.

So i assume that audio stream still pass by the Kmixer... So still looking for a way to bypass it.

ironfinger · 05-16-2007, 02:14 PM

so you're trying to go bit perfect into console? Try the winamp drivers listed in the bit perfect section of the wiki. I got one of them to work, but had to use an external volume knob. I felt the minute difference, if any, in sound quality wasn't worth going with an external volume knob..

BenOBS · 05-16-2007, 03:12 PM

I have the winamp ASIO outpud dll, but it refuse to work whit my actual setup (ie: winamp refuse to play tracks). Futhermore, I can figure out where the audio stream goes when I select asio and how to use this audio stream from console. Maybe it's here I need VAC or Asio4all ? I need to route this stream in console and then output it to KX, but does console support a output device different from the input (if yes, how?)?

ironfinger · 05-16-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BenOBS

but does console support a output device different from the input (if yes, how?)?

Yes, that's where Asio4all with VAC may help you... With Asio4all, Console will list the VAC channels you create along with your Asio sound cards channels as selectable input and outputs i/o devices.. that would be step 4 in the "how tow use console page".. http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php..._Tuning_Method

AS for getting ASIO output dll to work.. make sure the sample rates of both the output dll and your soundcard are the same.

BenOBS · 05-16-2007, 06:07 PM

I think i've got something!

Winamp -> HQsoftproc 16/48 -> Asio Output -> Asio4All -> KX Fxbus 0/1 -> KX Asio 0/1 -> Console -> KX Fxbus 2/3 -> Jack

Like this Console is set to use the KX device and kmixer is bypassed.
At first it was very noisy, but at soon that I turned Hardware buffer on in Asio4all, things get right!