Bass or Quality? - Page 2

ronjon228 · 03-06-2008, 09:56 PM

Are you using home audio speakers in there? Haven't seen that done in a LONG time. If you are, you'd benefit greatly, I would think, from having stuff geared more at car audio. Home audio components are meant to run at 8ohms primarily and, from my experience, sound way too treble heaving in a car environment.

Also just in general it seems you have too much going on. When it comes to car audio a lot of time, less is more. Your front stage is paramount. A nice 6.5" or if you can't fit that 5.25" component set is perfect really. Then some rear fill can consist of something as little as some mid-range drivers. Your subs should be fine. With 2 subs though, if you can do a 6.5" comp set up front, and some 6.5" drivers in the back I think you'll really like the way it sounds.

ronjon228 · 03-06-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_fx

It's cool, i'm always learning as well. it's awesome that you're going active.
there is a post in the car audio faq or somewhere on this site on how to tune your system usinga $45 radio shack db meter, very cool post... check it out.
67hz still seems low depending on the power you're giving them. I bet they fall off quickly. I would probably start around 80 hz and see how they sound. my old 6.5" cdt's would fall apart with anything below 80hz. If you're door is well dampened and you're not throwing a lot of power at it then you may get ok results that low, but it wont be that loud before it starts to distort. Start at 80 hz (with sub turned off) and see how it sounds then play from there.

Will do man, thanks for the advice. I've got a nifty little setup on my desktop right now for tuning and it makes things a piece of cake. If I minimize FreeIce, my front crossover, rear crossover, and subwoofer volume control right on the desktop for on the fly tuning. I'll try 80Hz and go from there.

I've actually got another question for you. Since I'm running 6.5" drivers in the back deck, they want to overpower my 5.25" drivers in the front unless I cross them over at a higher Hz. Am I hurting my SQL by crossing these over at a higher range than the front fill? Should I just compensate more with the fader instead? If I leave them all zeroed out, it definitely throws my sound stage off. The fronts are more heavy on treble (with the tweets) and the rears are more heavy on the mid-range. Therefore I get 2 sound stages without altering this. A "treble" stage in front, and a "mid bass" stage in back. That's why I'm crossing them over at a higher frequency right now.

About this db meter and tuning, it's something I'll definitely check out. Thanks for the tip.

Megalomaniac · 03-06-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by brucedog

It's interesting reading what you guys are saying about active tuning and also about high-line speakers / components.

As a re-beginner in car audio who was used to 1970's speakers, tape players and such, pretty much any amps, speakers of this century sound remarkable better. Really.

I just have 2 Pyramid amps, and a Buttkicker sub amp. Generally loud and clear, with that great bass, but with vocals and instrumental solos verrry clear.

Speakers are a MA Audio 2x10" box, and really you should look at my pictures for the others...really strange based on what y'all are doing. Bottom line, my sound is really nice, especially with a great quality cd ripped to my carpc Hd on...

But when I hear you speak of time and phase correction, and audiophile op amps on sound cards, I maybe thing I want to go there.

[/IMG]

not my cup tea at all, but im glad you are satisfied.

i voted Quality. however at one point all i wanted was bass but grew over it pretty fast when i realised i dont like too much bass

CoryF · 03-06-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_fx

i think i'd still delete the 4"s and probably minimize the volume to the sails unless you have passengers back there. focus on just front left, front right, and sub and you'll probably get better results. imho

Ya, once it is all in then i got a lot of tuning to do.

There will not be any stock stereo in the car, its like starting from scratch. haha gotta love this stuff!!

brucedog · 03-07-2008, 07:07 AM

Thanks ronjojn and mega.

Yeah, that's what is funny for me about is new car audio experience. As an old head, it wasn't possible in the 70's to get any sort of high-quality sound in the car, so some of us actually brought bookshelf (box) speakers into the car, installed inverters, and (yes) actually monted some kind of Kenwood or Marantz or Tecniques receviver under the dash.

Looked strange, sounded awesome - people wouldn't ride in my car bacause it was "too loud!"

So, I guess the stuff I've got in this car are sort of a retro holdover to those old days - go with whatcha know best...

Although it sounds really nice in my car, 'm thinking that I should look into what kind of car audio magazines are out there, and get a couple to learn what's current. Also, howbout a book or two on high-end car audio?

Thanks for the introduction to a better way. Suggestions are always heard.

scott_fx · 03-07-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ronjon228

Are you using home audio speakers in there? Haven't seen that done in a LONG time. If you are, you'd benefit greatly, I would think, from having stuff geared more at car audio. Home audio components are meant to run at 8ohms primarily and, from my experience, sound way too treble heaving in a car environment.

Also just in general it seems you have too much going on. When it comes to car audio a lot of time, less is more. Your front stage is paramount. A nice 6.5" or if you can't fit that 5.25" component set is perfect really. Then some rear fill can consist of something as little as some mid-range drivers. Your subs should be fine. With 2 subs though, if you can do a 6.5" comp set up front, and some 6.5" drivers in the back I think you'll really like the way it sounds.

(durwood and I are both using home audio speakers in our cars... my mids and tweets are 8 ohms

)

RedGTiVR6 · 03-07-2008, 11:26 AM

I think there's a pretty darn big difference between what you two are using and what's shown in those pics...

brucedog · 03-07-2008, 04:14 PM

It's funny though - we ask ourselves "but does it really sound good?"

Dare I go against the current, do I try something different? Is it possible that there are MANY ways to produce nice sounds in a mobile evironment?

With the human capacity for self-delusion, though, we must ask someone else. The verdict: my listeners say WOW!

It's fun to be different. But, sometimes it IS a bit lonely.

ronjon228 · 03-07-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by brucedog

It's funny though - we ask ourselves "but does it really sound good?"

Dare I go against the current, do I try something different? Is it possible that there are MANY ways to produce nice sounds in a mobile evironment?

With the human capacity for self-delusion, though, we must ask someone else. The verdict: my listeners say WOW!

It's fun to be different. But, sometimes it IS a bit lonely.

To each his my friend, to each his own.

scott_fx · 03-07-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by brucedog

It's fun to be different. But, sometimes it IS a bit lonely.

that is awesome

ronjon228 · 03-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Hey scott can you help me out tuning my system. I'm having a horrible time doing so and really need some advice.

Specifically with time alignment and crossovers.

I want to get the db meter and tune my EQ in, but can't do this until I get these other issues sorted out. If you can take a minute to help me out that would be great.

Let me know and I'll hit you with a PM, or if you prefer we can do it right here.

scott_fx · 03-07-2008, 06:27 PM

no problem ronjon, i would start a new thread and get everyone's input. durwood, red and a bunch of others have a lot more experience then i do and they'll be valuable in the discussion.

ronjon228 · 03-07-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_fx

(durwood and I are both using home audio speakers in our cars... my mids and tweets are 8 ohms

)

Actually come to think of it, I'm using 8 ohm speakers for my front mids and tweets as well. Almost forgot about that. Since the speakers are 8 ohms, and I'm running the comps off of the passive crossover, I'm effectively bridging the speakers down to 4 ohm final impedance to my amp.

ronjon228 · 03-07-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_fx

no problem ronjon, i would start a new thread and get everyone's input. durwood, red and a bunch of others have a lot more experience then i do and they'll be valuable in the discussion.

Will do man, I'll set it up right now, thanks!

scott_fx · 03-07-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ronjon228

Actually come to think of it, I'm using 8 ohm speakers for my front mids and tweets as well. Almost forgot about that. Since the speakers are 8 ohms, and I'm running the comps off of the passive crossover, I'm effectively bridging the speakers down to 4 ohm final impedance to my amp.

if the passive x-over was designed for a 4 ohm speaker then you are changing the x-over points that were called out for in the x-over design