PCI vs USB Sound Card

Maegnas · 07-31-2008, 11:21 PM

First, my car will be running 4 speakers through a 4 channel amp, as well as 2 subs through a 2 channel bass amp. So I need 5.1 Sound Card options. Running RoadRunner.

I am having a lot of trouble figuring out what sound card to put in my car, as it seems there is no preferred card. I have searched for many USB options, and have heard many mixed reviews on them, so I am wondering, would it be better to get a PCI Card (with a PCI riser cable, as my case doesn't have room), or get a USB sound card? Is there a real sound improvement with either one?

Also... in your opinions for USB:

Sound Blaster Live! (Is this one 5.1?)

Sound Blaster Audigy 2 NX (discontinued)

Sound Blaster X-Fi

Turtle Beach Roadie

Zalman ZM-RSSC

Which is the best? Or do you have a different one to recommend?

If PCI is the way to go, I would greatly appreciate some recommendations for those too.

Please if anyone can give some recommendations, it would be a great help to me.

My last hold-up before I can move forward, ugh.

Thank you to all those who reply!

scott_fx · 08-01-2008, 12:11 AM

you dont 'really' need a 5.1 card. a stereo card or dac will do just fine. it all depends on what you want and how much you want to spend. if you want clean sound and usb go with a usb dac like the bloat. it's a 2 chan dac but if you take advantage of your amps internal x-overs and pass through outputs you can easily get really good sound that way (think, daisy chaining your amps)

Maegnas · 08-01-2008, 10:50 AM

I was thinking about the Bloat, the only problem is I don't really want to pay 200 bucks. At least right now. Is there a different card that you have experience with, or at least know of that would be better than the Sound Blaster Live! with KX drivers? I was told that this was a good option that's cheap. I am looking for more input as well.

If there is a really big difference in sound quality using the bloat, I would consider it, so please let me know if it's quite a big jump.

Thanks scott fx!

scott_fx · 08-01-2008, 11:17 AM

i dont have experience with the bloat. just basing my statement on all the reviews i've read on it. i do have a douglas hpdac that i could maybe be swayed to sell if you want to try it. it's built as a headphone amp but you could use it as a pre-amp as well. I have great results with sb live/kx driver combo with an audiocontrol 24xs x-over/line driver. it's a great 'budget' setup imho

Maegnas · 08-01-2008, 07:00 PM

Cool, thanks for the info. I'm looking to spend quite a bit less than the bloat would set me back. Now the SB Live! you are referring to is the PCI card? Not the USB?

I looked at the audiocontrol 24xs and it's a little more expensive than I want.

Would the Douglas give me better sound quality than would the SB? I haven't read anything on it, is there a thread on it somewhere?

Thanks for your help!

scott_fx · 08-01-2008, 10:45 PM

http://www.ecp.cc/HPDAC.html

the douglas dac would most likely sound better as long as you had some way of eq'ing on the software side. the sb live pci card that i had was great, but adding the x-over made a very noticable difference. you could look for an active 2-way x-over on ebay that isn't audiocontrol, maybe you'd find an old phoenix gold unit. just make sure it has a line driver in it.

scott_fx · 08-03-2008, 02:58 AM

check out this thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=43531

he has a 2xs for 50 bucks

Maegnas · 08-03-2008, 11:59 AM

I don't know much about the crossovers, pretty noob on that subject

. I'm wondering what it does for me (in lame man's terms)? Is it that it allows me to control the levels all my speakers and subs?

I noticed on that 2xs it looked like it only had 2 inputs? How would I plug in my 4 speakers/2 subs to it? (Is there enough to run my 3 rca cables directly into it?)

That is a good deal for that crossover, and thanks for the heads up, though before I buy one I think I should know a little bit more about them :P.

Thanks a lot for the help, and for all the replies guys!

Maegnas · 08-03-2008, 12:00 PM

Oh... 1 more thing, and if it is for controlling the levels of my speakers and subs, isn't there a way to do this software end through the computer? Is it as effective?

Thanks.

scott_fx · 08-03-2008, 12:31 PM

a crossover send the correct signals to the correct speakers. you have your one set of rca's going into it and it splits them up to the correct frequencies for your speakers and your sub. the 2xs also incorperates a line driver which boosts the voltage of the rca's before it gets to the amp reducing the audible noise that gets introduced along the rca leads.

it's not optimal since i ran it with just front speakers and a sub, but it can still work. i'd get a y-adapter for the high pass output and run that to your front and rear speaker amp, then the low pass output directly to your sub.

what kind of car do you have? do you need the rear speakers? personally i don't like them so i leave them out.

Maegnas · 08-03-2008, 01:06 PM

Ok, so I would run front/back/subs from my sound card, combine front and back, run both those and the subs into the 2xs. (2 rca's). Then out I would again be running 3 rca's correct? The front and back would separate after the 2xs? (2 for front and back to my 4 channel amp, then 1 for subs to my 2 channel bass amp)

Is it better then to have a bigger crossover? Like the 4xs? Is it a big loss combining front and back, or wouldn't it be very noticeable? (Again, I'm looking to stay very cheap... so obviously if it's not a very noticeable difference, I doubt the price would be worth it, unless I found a good deal somewhere, which in that case it'd be good to know :P)

I have a Pontiac Grand Am. I do want my back speakers, I like having them.

Thanks! You have been a great help!

scott_fx · 08-04-2008, 01:32 AM

so you inspired me today. I started working on the car and i got everything hooked up and sound finally playing through my speakers. I used the hpdac and had some good results, just to test. i cranked the engine over and realized... i am never going to hear the benefits of audiophile grade equipment and i'm wasting my money. I am ripping out the behringer and replacing it with a usb dac into my 3 way x-over, software eq'ing and calling it a day.

i was researching and found this gem:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-DAC-HIGH-PER...2em118Q2el1247

i'm going to pick one up and use it in my system and see how i like it. basically it's the same setup as you're talking about minus the rear speakers.

check out this as well, not audiocontrol quality though but probably would do pretty good with the dac i listed above:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CLARION-MCD3...QQcmdZViewItem

Maegnas · 08-04-2008, 11:51 PM

Well I'm glad to hear you're saving money, that's always a good thing, haha

.

So I'm trying to finalize my options as to what exactly I'm going to get. I have a couple different combinations and options, and your recommendation would be great.

I'm 99% sure I'm going with a Sound Blaster card with the KX drivers. I still have to figure out which card exactly that will be. (gotta look through the supported ones and see what people say is the best, any suggestions?). I'm on the fence after that though. Running from the card, I'm not sure if I should run into a crossover/equalizer (like the one on the link you posted), or run straight to the amps from the card. I think having one would be a noticeable difference, or at least quite a bit more flexibility with my audio... no? Also wouldn't that be a "boost" so-to-say along the way from my amps?

Also, the USB Dac. I don't understand what they do... and where it comes into play? Would that replace the sound card? I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to crossovers/equalization and similar

. But I'm learning...

Thanks for your input.

FPeter · 08-05-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maegnas

...

i had the same setup: with kx driver, you can put 3 independent SPDIF signal to the AUD_EXT connector of tha Live/Audigy card. you can put low/highpass filters on each and other extras. i had 3 SPDIF receiver DAC in the trunk, next to the amps for high, middle and sub amps, but the result was not too good. i dont know why, but the sound was bad. now i have a cmedia CM108 noname soundcard, then i connected an isolated DA IC to its I2S bus, and it sounds much better! its only stereo system, then i sould use my amps low/highpass filters, but now i have really good sound! and i made an isolated output onto the CM108's one GPIO pin, then i can turn on and off my amps from software

now i would like to upgrade it, and somehow i should get some CMI8788 chip (several pro card based on it, for example auzentech, barracuda and others). this chip has 4 independent I2S output, and supports ASIO - but really hard to get one...

Maegnas · 08-07-2008, 10:27 PM

I've been looking at the DAC's and Crossovers, and I'm still unsure what to look for when it comes to the quality of each unit, and the process in connecting them...

The DAC's all have 2 inputs, which confuses me, cause in order to get sound from all 4 speakers and my subs I have 3 RCA's running... hmmm.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my educated guess: The 3 RCA's (front/rear/sub) come into the equalizer (front and rear into y-adapter first). Front/rear into the high, and subs into the low. Then from there I have 2 RCA's out again, which would run: A. - Into my DAC (But then again into a y-adapter for front/rear/sub all together?) or B. - Into my SB Card, by use of RCA to 1/8" adapters?

Now if this is correct, the problems I 'think' I see...

1. Front and Rear combining into crossover - would this reduce quality? Is there a crossover that allows all 3 rca's in and 3 out? Or would that just be wasting my money? (Price worth it just to combine?)

2. Coming out of crossover and into DAC - I hear a lot about this having great sound quality (but of course me being noob) but I don't understand how it would connect and be good quality? (I feel like I have this part completely wrong in my head, so if that's so, a correction is indeed a great favor

)

3. Coming out of crossover and into SB - Assuming I ran rear and front together, then into crossover, it would come out combined as well? Or separate? (If combined, would I separate them and then into SB?)

4. Thanks to anyone who listened to my 'shpeel'.

*Phew*

For those of you with similar setups... may I ask what crossovers you use? (If they are pretty cheap options, as my budget is pretty limited)

Any recommendations for under $100 (With Line Driver)? Or above if it's a really awesome difference and good deal

.

Thanks for all the help so far guys, and also for future posters.

(Oh, and lame man's terms please, as you can see I'm pretty new at this)

Maegnas

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