Help on speaker setup, PLEASE!!!!!!!!

HiJackZX1 · 06-27-2009, 11:56 AM

This has been an issue that has been plaguing me since god knows when. I cant seem to focus (due to A.D.D and Hypertension). I start to think about it, take peoples advice, then start to over think, then loose focus and end up getting discombobulated. I think a while ago I had started a similar post, but couldn't find it. I figured id start off fresh.

Currently the setup has a 9 speaker configuration.

Six 6 1/2 speakers for the doors, Two front speakers (one for center, the other for phone), and the sub.

The amps will be 2 Alpine PDX 4.100 and 1 Apline PDX 1.600. I decided to get rid of the original wiring and upgrade to 12 gauge speaker wire. I figured if I ran new cable, I can cut out the middle man (factory wiring) and simply run direct from the amp to the speaker. This hopefully will get rid of alot of EMI issues a was having before.

My question is what type of speakers should I have? I drive a SUV, a big box, and I was told that I should have components in the 2 front doors, then regular speakers (2-way I guess) in all the other doors and areas. Does this sound right? The components are 110 RMS, and the 2 way are 100 RMS. My grand idea was to have components in all 6 speaker holes. For some reason my brain has been saying thats a bad idea. Its telling me that i should have components in the front door, the rear doors, but not in the third row. The third row should have regular speakers.

What do you guys think I should have?

thewizard · 06-28-2009, 10:25 AM

A decent component set in the front is really all you need. If you must have a set in the rear then a set of coax will do the trick. If you put too much in the rear all you will do is pull the sound stage to the rear of the vehicle and kill your overall sound quality and imaging. When you go to a concert the band plays in front of you not behind you, and this is fact what you are trying to reproduce.

HiJackZX1 · 06-28-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by thewizard

A decent component set in the front is really all you need. If you must have a set in the rear then a set of coax will do the trick. If you put too much in the rear all you will do is pull the sound stage to the rear of the vehicle and kill your overall sound quality and imaging. When you go to a concert the band plays in front of you not behind you, and this is fact what you are trying to reproduce.

I forgot about the front staging. What your saying sounds logical. So the front should be component then all the rest should be 2 way speakers? Does the fact that I have a center speaker affect the front staging?

jake789 · 06-29-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by thewizard

A decent component set in the front is really all you need. If you must have a set in the rear then a set of coax will do the trick. If you put too much in the rear all you will do is pull the sound stage to the rear of the vehicle and kill your overall sound quality and imaging. When you go to a concert the band plays in front of you not behind you, and this is fact what you are trying to reproduce.

People always quote the 'concert' example but I always thought its a bad idea for several reasons. Most shows have crap sound quality, either from the accoustics of the location/stage, bad sound engineers, or the fact that the tickets you buy are probably not in mid-center of the stage. Not to mention the fact that its near impossible to have your sub up front.

Personally, I prefer hearing a good recording played on a high end HT system. This way it feels like you are in the middle of the music. Plus it seems like the OP is going for more of a HT setup anyways.

jake789 · 06-29-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

I forgot about the front staging. What your saying sounds logical. So the front should be component then all the rest should be 2 way speakers? Does the fact that I have a center speaker affect the front staging?

Center speaker in front is ok as long as you use a pc as your source. I would use a seperate midbass/tweeter though. Since tweeters are very directional you will want to play around with their placements to find the best sound.

Crinos · 06-29-2009, 05:06 AM

Hum, if you look into what component speakers truly are...
A set of midragne speaker and a tweeter/discant speaker and a crosover filter box to splitt the signal to the correct place/speaker.

The discant is very directional, and on stock system, placed so that the speaker points directly to the driver+passanger.

My thoughts, is that you should most defently have component in the front.
And perhaps find some good 4-way speakers to have in the back rows. (Sony have a 6:9 4-way speaker that is incredible good audio wise, and cheap as well).

The "Concert" example is good, but not true.
You can still have good audio in each place, if done correctly. Meaning, adjusting levles so that while sitting in the middle row. The volume from the middel row speakers are what you hear.

(Just as a little note, many big concerts have speakers placed out amongst the publicum to even out the sound quality for the ppl in the back row) And the sound quality is allways best around the sound tech

and very Off topic... one way to check if the sound mixer dude is good or bad... listen to the pre-configuration of the stage... If he play Michael Jacksson or Pink Floyd... He truly knows what he does.. Don't need to like the music, but it's PERFECT to adjust a big stage with!

digital79 · 06-29-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

My question is what type of speakers should I have? I drive a SUV, a big box, and I was told that I should have components in the 2 front doors, then regular speakers (2-way I guess) in all the other doors and areas.

Having components (separate mid and tweeter) makes it possible to mount the tweeter closer to ear level, thus bringing the sound stage higher and making it more natural. Disadvantage is the need to install the tweeters and the crossover, as well as issues which are caused by the separation of mid and tweeter by a significant distance (wave cancellations, time differential), since sound will be coming from 2 points now, especially for sounds that are near the crossover points, so are reproduced by mid and tweeter.

Having coaxials eliminates that, but if the speaker is low, then the sound stage will also be low. Some have rotating tweeters, you can point them upwards. There's less installation hassle of course, since you only have to install one speaker, and not 2 + crossover.

Go with components in the front for sure. As for rear: do you want passengers to have better quality, and do you want to do the extra work? Components will also cost bit more, since there are extra parts for crossover.

Which speakers do you have in mind?

And no matter what you install, remember, car door is not the perfect speaker enclosure. You may need to apply some sound deadener to the door panels. Car audio can be very time consuming, if you want to get it as close as possible to perfection.

HiJackZX1 · 06-29-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by digital79

Having components (separate mid and tweeter) makes it possible to mount the tweeter closer to ear level, thus bringing the sound stage higher and making it more natural. Disadvantage is the need to install the tweeters and the crossover, as well as issues which are caused by the separation of mid and tweeter by a significant distance (wave cancellations, time differential), since sound will be coming from 2 points now, especially for sounds that are near the crossover points, so are reproduced by mid and tweeter.

Having coaxials eliminates that, but if the speaker is low, then the sound stage will also be low. Some have rotating tweeters, you can point them upwards. There's less installation hassle of course, since you only have to install one speaker, and not 2 + crossover.

Go with components in the front for sure. As for rear: do you want passengers to have better quality, and do you want to do the extra work? Components will also cost bit more, since there are extra parts for crossover.

Which speakers do you have in mind?

And no matter what you install, remember, car door is not the perfect speaker enclosure. You may need to apply some sound deadener to the door panels. Car audio can be very time consuming, if you want to get it as close as possible to perfection.

Yes car audio can be very time consuming and confusing for me. Im learning that now. Yes components cost more, and yes you need space, but I am actually willing to go through both. I WANT THIS TO SOUND SUPER SUPER GOOD! So I should go components all the way around? Front, Middle and Rear?

thekl0wn · 06-29-2009, 01:54 PM

If you're going for an SQ install, then you should be concentrating on your front stage, and ignoring all else at the moment. Get the front stage nailed down, and then look into adding on all the extra "bling". IMO

jake789 · 06-29-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

So I should go components all the way around? Front, Middle and Rear?

Yes, components are usually always better than 2-way's.

Mount the midbass in the stock doors. You will want to deaden the doors if you really want it to sound its best.

The hard part will be tweeter location. A good starting point is to focus both tweeters at a point in between the driver and passenger at eye level. Then play around with different positions until they sound the best. Also remember that the tweeters will sound the best when the left and right are equal distance from the listener. This usually means mounting them as far away as possible which is why people like the kickpanel.

For the rear seats, you might want to try mounting the tweeters in the headliner.

digital79 · 06-29-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jake789

Yes, components are usually always better than 2-way's.

You mean coaxials. 2-way means there are 2 drivers: in this case mid and tweeter, where 'components' means they are separated. Coaxial means they are mounted closely together (on axis -> coaxials). You can have 2-way components and 2 way coaxials.

Quote: Originally Posted by jake789

This usually means mounting them as far away as possible which is why people like the kickpanel.

So might as well go with coaxials.

Since you have a carputer, you might as well mount the tweeters up high, and do Time Alignment trough sound card drivers (some can do that). Time Alignment will delay the sound to the closer speaker, making it appear to a listener it is actually further.

HiJackZX1 · 06-29-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jake789

Yes, components are usually always better than 2-way's.

Mount the midbass in the stock doors. You will want to deaden the doors if you really want it to sound its best.

The hard part will be tweeter location. A good starting point is to focus both tweeters at a point in between the driver and passenger at eye level. Then play around with different positions until they sound the best. Also remember that the tweeters will sound the best when the left and right are equal distance from the listener. This usually means mounting them as far away as possible which is why people like the kickpanel.

For the rear seats, you might want to try mounting the tweeters in the headliner.

I was walking past a Lexus and I looked in the cabin because the owner was so messy. I was shocked at how someone can treat a luxury car like that. I then looked at the speakers and what do you know, components come stock in all the doors, so thats the route I am going.

Quote: Originally Posted by digital79

You mean coaxials. 2-way means there are 2 drivers: in this case mid and tweeter, where 'components' means they are separated. Coaxial means they are mounted closely together (on axis -> coaxials). You can have 2-way components and 2 way coaxials.

So might as well go with coaxials.

Since you have a carputer, you might as well mount the tweeters up high, and do Time Alignment trough sound card drivers (some can do that). Time Alignment will delay the sound to the closer speaker, making it appear to a listener it is actually further.

As far as mounting the tweeters, I was going to put them in the doors also. They will be at ear level though. I guess I have to wait and buy them to see how I am going to set it up.

thekl0wn · 06-29-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by digital79

So might as well go with coaxials.

Your tweeter mounting woes mean nothing now... Until you know what you're going with for any of the drivers. Your best bet on the tweets is to get them, and play around with the placements for a good long while. Velcro is great for this part of the process.

What kind of setup are you even looking at? DIY? Shelf-bought? Active? Budget?

thekl0wn · 06-29-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jake789

Mount the midbass in the stock doors. You will want to deaden the doors if you really want it to sound its best.

I would have to append this statement.... Mount your baffle to the stock door. Then mount the mid to the baffle.

digital79 · 06-29-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by thekl0wn

Your tweeter mounting woes mean nothing now...

Usually people go with components, so they can have a separated tweeter, and them mount it at ear level, and not so low. It's OK though, you can still get better quality than with coaxials. It's just less common to have tweeters so low, as they bring the sound stage down.

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