Type R 6 x 9's, hardly any bass

kidcash · 10-14-2009, 10:18 AM

Hi,

I had Some pioneer speakers with the blue cones and they were pretty bassy.
So I bought a set of Alpine Type R 6 x 9's and installed them in the same location that my pioneers used to be. First thing I noticed is they were very quiet compared to the Pioneers, could hardly hear them at all. So I had to turn up the gain on my amp (Alpine V12) for the rears to hear them.

On the songs where there should be bass you can see the cones moving but you really cant hear bass. I thought they could be wired out of phase so I tried wiring them the other way but still hardly any bass.

Cones have no rips or anything.

If they havent been used before, do they need to be run in as in used for a while before they begin producing better bass?

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

HiJackZX1 · 10-14-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by kidcash

Hi,

I had Some pioneer speakers with the blue cones and they were pretty bassy.
So I bought a set of Alpine Type R 6 x 9's and installed them in the same location that my pioneers used to be. First thing I noticed is they were very quiet compared to the Pioneers, could hardly hear them at all. So I had to turn up the gain on my amp (Alpine V12) for the rears to hear them.

On the songs where there should be bass you can see the cones moving but you really cant hear bass. I thought they could be wired out of phase so I tried wiring them the other way but still hardly any bass.

Cones have no rips or anything.

If they havent been used before, do they need to be run in as in used for a while before they begin producing better bass?

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

I was thinking of getting some of these. i have the 6 1/2 and they are awesome. The dash though cannot fit 6 1/2, but would fit the oval.

Sonicxtacy02 · 10-14-2009, 10:53 AM

are you running them off of a stock head unit. Type R's really should be amped. You wanna hear a 6x9 with no bass try some infinity's lol.

kidcash · 10-14-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sonicxtacy02

are you running them off of a stock head unit. Type R's really should be amped. You wanna hear a 6x9 with no bass try some infinity's lol.

Nope not running off head unit, the Type R's are running off an Alpine V12 Amp.

CabrioBob · 10-14-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by kidcash

so I tried wiring them the other way

if "they" are out of phase, normally one of the two is, so swapping wires should be done for 1 of the two at a time, not both at the same time.

hearing no bass normally means they phase each other out.

kidcash · 10-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by CabrioBob

if "they" are out of phase, normally one of the two is, so swapping wires should be done for 1 of the two at a time, not both at the same time.

hearing no bass normally means they phase each other out.

I will see whats up with that, any other suggestions will be great though as these are supposed to be very bassy speakers.

Somebody else said "Your amp is only 40 watts rms per channel and those speakers are 100w rms each so thats why your getting no bass" - Is this true?

pancit175 · 10-14-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by kidcash

I will see whats up with that, any other suggestions will be great though as these are supposed to be very bassy speakers.

Somebody else said "Your amp is only 40 watts rms per channel and those speakers are 100w rms each so thats why your getting no bass" - Is this true?

Yes this is very true. These speakers are very power hungry, and only perform well when it is powered near the potential 100Wrms. Whereas the other speakers you had in there were probably being powered near its potential of 40-60Wrms.

surfntomm · 10-14-2009, 05:23 PM

look at the specs of the speakers, they have a sensitivity of Sensitivity: 89dB / W(1m) which isnt insanely low but isnt high by any means. This is probably relating to why you had to turn up the gain on your amp. remember its a log scale so if you old speakers were 91 thats a noticeable difference.

secondly look at the frequency response on the speakers (60Hz - 27kHz). I am assuming this is +/- 3 dB but it is not stated. 60 Hz isnt very low and your pioneers may be able to dig a little deeper into the lower frequencies. It is possible that after 60 Hz the response just totally dies off meaning no sound for the same input power.

Compare specs or give me the name of the old pioneer speakers, that can give us more info since they were run off the same amp and source.

HiJackZX1 · 10-14-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by pancit175

Yes this is very true. These speakers are very power hungry, and only perform well when it is powered near the potential 100Wrms. Whereas the other speakers you had in there were probably being powered near its potential of 40-60Wrms.

I too have heard this from many people. The Alpine Type R, like the 100 RMS they were built to handle.

soundman98 · 10-14-2009, 08:28 PM

Frequency response specs are all over the board for evert company- alpine might be using the -3db downpoints, where other less common companies will use lower points- making the less common brands seem better...

If you are really looking for bass, get a sub. 6x9's are a poor substitute.

But I agree that switching one of the speakers terminals should correct the problem.

Also, make sure that the speakers terminals are not wired backwards- check polarity on both. I had a set of 6x9's that pulled the voice coils apart because both speakers were connected backwards.

pancit175 · 10-14-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

I too have heard this from many people. The Alpine Type R, like the 100 RMS they were built to handle.

I feel should point out an example at least between the stock and aftermarket speakers performance.
When I started out the project on my new car, I started with the stock audio components. The first thing I did was change out the rear pair of speakers to the alpine type r 6.5" coaxial speakers, while I was waiting for my front components and amps. Now you can imagine that the OEM headunit is meant to match the proper power to the stock speakers at somewhere between 10-15Wrms. The magnet of the alpines had to be at least 5 times larger than the stock, not to mention the different type of magnetic material, which you can determine that with the same amount of power that it will take to run those speakers you cannot expect it to run the new speakers properly.

The resulting sound out of the alpines was much softer than the stock speakers and I needed to adjust the fade a significant amount to the rear in order to compensate. And when I did install my alpine type r 6.5 component speakers in the front the fade could be centered, but the volume levels needed to be near max to be anywhere near decent listening levels.

I knew this would happen beforehand, that was why I planned on installing a 4 channel amp with 100Wrms output to properly power the speakers when I install my computer and other amp&subs. After everything was installed I cannot complain one bit. I barely even have to crank up my volume level above 40% of max most of the time.

kidcash · 10-15-2009, 03:38 AM

Thanks for all the comments, thing is I'm damn sure I've been in peoples cars who have ran Type S's (these are 85w RMS) off a stock head unit and they hit pretty hard.

So Type R's at 100w rms i'm wondering why they have abosutely no bass at all in my setup. When turned up I can definately see the cones moving real high but they dont make bass.

malcom2073 · 10-15-2009, 05:53 AM

if these are in a rear deck, is it possible that the pioneers are designed to run open-backed, and the Type R's are designed to be run in a sealed box? It would explain the cone movement with no bass. I know when I put speakers in my rear deck they were damn near silent at low frequency until I put boxes underneath them.

kidcash · 10-15-2009, 06:31 AM

Hi,

Just found out that they were wired out of phase.

Well when I got them running i found out that one of the speakers has a broken voice coil or something, everytime the speaker hits i hear a rattle like there is something inside.

When the speakers are outside when i gently tap one of the cones of the good speaker it makes a nice low tone voice. When I tap the defective speaker it makes a rattle inside.

soundman98 · 10-15-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by kidcash

Hi,

Just found out that they were wired out of phase.

Well when I got them running i found out that one of the speakers has a broken voice coil or something, everytime the speaker hits i hear a rattle like there is something inside.

When the speakers are outside when i gently tap one of the cones of the good speaker it makes a nice low tone voice. When I tap the defective speaker it makes a rattle inside.

this would be what happens when the polarity is reversed and you really push them...

but, it's good you figured it out.

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