Mixer settings in Mediacar Vs. EQ on HU

fly_dutchie · 07-18-2004, 02:21 AM

I have just installed new front door speakers (Infinity Kappa 6.5) and a active bass (Infinity Basslink X) in de trunk. I have kept the rear door stock speakers.

I don't know how to adjust the output of the PC (onboard sound) to be ideal level for input on the HU (Pioneer 4X50 MOS-FET ). The mixer settings confuse me: master volume, winamp volume, winamp preamp wave volume. Are there more settings in XP to influence the sound?

The PC is connected to the HU with a RB-20 Pioneer bus connection, which worked flawless with the stock speakers before.

The main problem is that I cannot get a good front image. There is not enough mid frequency and way too much high frequency. (don't need the low, due to the bass in the trunk).
While adjusting the EQ, the fronts sometimes really get distorted and oversteered.

Can somebody tell me how the mixer stettings in Mediacar interact and how do they influence the total sound image of playing mp3's?

Secondly, does anybody have experience in regulating 6.5 fronts and getting the mid frequencies up, using a HU and not a 4 channel amp?

Thirdly, the crossovers have two settings: flat and contour. Contour supposedly reduces the mid-range output, so I set it to flat. Resulting in the above. Anybody have any experience with tuning these crossovers?

Any comment on my set-up is very welcome.

Michael

proTONEd · 07-18-2004, 09:39 AM

Have you got some experience with mixers? It's kinda the same principle.

You could see winamp as one channel here. For each channel you can set the volume (here the winamp volume). But when you set the max volume for one channel on a mixer, it is not always as high as the other channels (even if they are set to max). That is where the preamp slider comes in for winamp. You can adjust the slider to boost or dampen the signal a bit when needed. This is in a lot of cases also a source of distortion if the signal is boosted too much.

The other source of distortion in most cases is the equalizer. Because what it does is boost or dampen signals in a particular range (frequency). Same as with the preamp.

Then there is the master volume or windows volume in this case. where the volume for the channels is like an input volume control the master is the output volume control.

About you sound image. I think in most cases it's best to adjust the equalizer of your HU. Some of the headunits already have filters built in, i.e. for subwoofer,... Best thing would be to filter the bass from the signal from you 6.5s. With some HU you can do this. If you would use the EQ in MediaCar you just alter the complete signal that goes to all your speakers.

fly_dutchie · 07-18-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by proTONEd

Have you got some experience with mixers? It's kinda the same principle.

You could see winamp as one channel here. For each channel you can set the volume (here the winamp volume). But when you set the max volume for one channel on a mixer, it is not always as high as the other channels (even if they are set to max). That is where the preamp slider comes in for winamp. You can adjust the slider to boost or dampen the signal a bit when needed. This is in a lot of cases also a source of distortion if the signal is boosted too much.

The other source of distortion in most cases is the equalizer. Because what it does is boost or dampen signals in a particular range (frequency). Same as with the preamp.

Then there is the master volume or windows volume in this case. where the volume for the channels is like an input volume control the master is the output volume control.

About you sound image. I think in most cases it's best to adjust the equalizer of your HU. Some of the headunits already have filters built in, i.e. for subwoofer,... Best thing would be to filter the bass from the signal from you 6.5s. With some HU you can do this. If you would use the EQ in MediaCar you just alter the complete signal that goes to all your speakers.

Thanks proTONEd, very informative.

Do you know anything about adjusting the cross-overs? They have the setting 'Contour' and 'Flat'.

Michael

Jailer · 07-18-2004, 05:39 PM

Not enough mid frequency and too much high frequency sounds to me like maybe a loudness button on the deck, if you've got one try turning it off. Your problem is exactly the opposite of the most common problem in car audio which is: at low volume the midrange frequencies over power both the high end and low end frequencies. This was the original reasoning behind the Loudness button on head units it boosted the low and high frequencies to compensate for this phenomenon. You could try baffling the infinity speakers to see if this gives you a little more mid bass.

Jailer · 07-18-2004, 05:41 PM

Contoured crossover seeting will probably react like a loudness button on a head unit and boost high and low frequencies. Give it a shot, you can always set it back to flat later.

DaveP · 07-18-2004, 08:52 PM

Sorry to disappoint you pal, but if you were looking for mid-bass then you bought the wrong brand speakers. Infinity are notoriously weak at midbass and harsh on treble, which I think is exaggerating an already poor quality sound coming from your PC. Also, you will be chronically underpowering the speakers by using the H/U internal amp, which is rated 4x27W rms (but probably more like 4x15W rms), compared to the their recommended 75W rms.
Unfortunately,the Inifinity BassLink lacks the adjustability, and to some extent the ability; to move its crossover points up to meet and cover the door speakers.
Don't bother messing with the Pioneer onboard EQ, it's complete garbage. You only have the choice of boosting low/mid/treble which sadly gives similar results to using the Loudness setting (which should also be off).

The solution, either buy a suitable amplifier for the speakers or just live with the poor quality sound, because no amount of tweaking can restore the midbass which isn't present.

EDIT - damnit my speeling got bad

fly_dutchie · 07-19-2004, 02:42 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveP

Sorry to disappoint you pal, but if you were looking for mid-bass then you bought the wrong brand speakers. Infinity are notoriously weak at midbass and harsh on treble, which I think is exaggerating an already poor quality sound coming from your PC. Also, you will be chronically underpowering the speakers by using the H/U internal amp, which is rated 4x27W rms (but probably more like 4x15W rms), compared to the their recommended 75W rms.
Unfortunately,the Inifinity BassLink lacks the adjustability, and to some extent the ability; to move its crossover points up to meet and cover the door speakers.
Don't bother messing with the Pioneer onboard EQ, it's complete garbage. You only have the choice of boosting low/mid/treble which sadly gives similar results to using the Loudness setting (which should also be off).

The solution, either buy a suitable amplifier for the speakers or just live with the poor quality sound, because no amount of tweaking can restore the midbass which isn't present.

EDIT - damnit my speeling got bad

DaveP thanks for the info.

Could you point me to a cheap 4 channel amp to solve this?

Michael

Jailer · 07-19-2004, 05:02 PM

Had a breakthrough on your speaker problem on the drive home from work today. It is possible that the speakers are out of phase. To verify this use your balance control and go from extreme left to center to extreme right. If you've got better sound on each side than in the center your speakers are out of phase. To correct this find the speaker that is wired backwards and you will see a dramatic increase in mid bass. If speakers are out of phase the mid bass sound waves will cancel each other out.

proTONEd · 07-19-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveP

Sorry to disappoint you pal, but if you were looking for mid-bass then you bought the wrong brand speakers. Infinity are notoriously weak at midbass and harsh on treble, which I think is exaggerating an already poor quality sound coming from your PC. Also, you will be chronically underpowering the speakers by using the H/U internal amp, which is rated 4x27W rms (but probably more like 4x15W rms), compared to the their recommended 75W rms.
Unfortunately,the Inifinity BassLink lacks the adjustability, and to some extent the ability; to move its crossover points up to meet and cover the door speakers.
Don't bother messing with the Pioneer onboard EQ, it's complete garbage. You only have the choice of boosting low/mid/treble which sadly gives similar results to using the Loudness setting (which should also be off).

The solution, either buy a suitable amplifier for the speakers or just live with the poor quality sound, because no amount of tweaking can restore the midbass which isn't present.

EDIT - damnit my speeling got bad

I think you're right DaveP.

A lot of speakers when underpowered are not really at their best.
Nor are they when overpowered. And that is kinda the problem when you got a setup with different types of speakers.
The best thing would be if you got an amp where you can adjust crossover frequenties. So you can adjust frequenties properly for each set of speakers. But the problem will probably be that those amps are more expensive...

Sorry I can't give you advice on a good amp, I don't really have much experience with good car amps.

fly_dutchie · 07-19-2004, 06:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Jailer

Had a breakthrough on your speaker problem on the drive home from work today. It is possible that the speakers are out of phase. To verify this use your balance control and go from extreme left to center to extreme right. If you've got better sound on each side than in the center your speakers are out of phase. To correct this find the speaker that is wired backwards and you will see a dramatic increase in mid bass. If speakers are out of phase the mid bass sound waves will cancel each other out.

Interesting, I will try this.

In the mean time I found a cheap 4 channel amp. Pioneer GM-X374
It is 4X35 W RMS @ 4 Ohm and the specs state that you can bridge it to 2X100 W RMS @ 4 Ohm. Does that mean that I can drive the front composets with this 4 ch. bridged set-up?
Or does this bridging only work for subs (from stereo to mono)?
Anybody?

Michael

DaveP · 07-20-2004, 06:18 PM

You can still run bridged amps in stereo mode, but it only tends to be the higher-end stuff which does this.
Give me some rough idea of a price and I will give you some suggestions... Whereabouts would you be looking to buy it?? US, Holland, UK, Europe....

ProTONEd - Buying an amp which is rated at a higher power than the speakers it is intended to run is good practice in the ICE world. This allows you to run the amp with the gains set lower than on a less powerful amp, so therefore running the unit at less of a percentage of its potential maximum. This is called giving a speaker "headroom" and will provide a better quality sound in the long run with the ability to run louder for very short periods of time if necessary.

proTONEd · 07-20-2004, 06:33 PM

You are right DaveP. But what i meant to say is, that when you are dealing with different types of speakers hooked up to one amplifier, you'll have to balance everytihing out well.

fly_dutchie · 07-21-2004, 12:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveP

You can still run bridged amps in stereo mode, but it only tends to be the higher-end stuff which does this.
Give me some rough idea of a price and I will give you some suggestions... Whereabouts would you be looking to buy it?? US, Holland, UK, Europe....

ProTONEd - Buying an amp which is rated at a higher power than the speakers it is intended to run is good practice in the ICE world. This allows you to run the amp with the gains set lower than on a less powerful amp, so therefore running the unit at less of a percentage of its potential maximum. This is called giving a speaker "headroom" and will provide a better quality sound in the long run with the ability to run louder for very short periods of time if necessary.

@DaveP: Thanks for good info! Seen the Pioneer+specs? you think that will run in bridged stereo mode?
Anyways, I'm spending 200 european dollars max. To order it in Germany seems to be the cheapest. No extra tax and they ship it cheap.

BTW. I like the concept of headroom.

Michael

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