car amp with default speakers?

273BeLow · 03-15-2005, 02:54 PM

Hi

putting my car pc together this weekend with any luck, replacing my head unit and a bit worried about the fact I still have the speakers that were installed with my car back in 1996.

If I hook up an amp (no monster just a small one) is there any chance I can blow my speakers? (not through faults just too much power for things meant for a DIN radio)

sorry such a car audio noob!

Blackrazor · 03-15-2005, 04:21 PM

So long as you use your ears and dont be silly, they'll be fine, the speakers will start distorting long before you risk damagingthem... so if you hear them distorting, ease off...

But! you'll notice a much bigger difference in buying better speakers than you will in amping your factory ones, so think about that as an option

DarquePervert · 03-15-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 273BeLow

Hi

putting my car pc together this weekend with any luck, replacing my head unit and a bit worried about the fact I still have the speakers that were installed with my car back in 1996.

If I hook up an amp (no monster just a small one) is there any chance I can blow my speakers? (not through faults just too much power for things meant for a DIN radio)

sorry such a car audio noob!

DIN is a size specification. It has nothing to do with the power output.
There is a very good chance of blowing those stock speakers. Stock speakers are designed to work with the stock stereo, which is usally very low power output.

Bobby Digital · 03-15-2005, 04:47 PM

I would have to agree with Blackrazor, as long as you don't turn them up to the point where they are distorting you should be ok. Just make sure you don't crank it by mistake cuz then you may blow them.

That being said, you should look into a speaker upgrade anyhow. What's the point of having such a nice in-car entertainment setup (carputer) with crappy sound?

Blackrazor · 03-15-2005, 04:54 PM

OMG its BD!

You're everywhere mate! Either that, or i just hang around you like a fart in a phonebox

Now wheres the Shop so i can change your custom tag for old times sake

froop · 03-15-2005, 05:02 PM

You actually have more chance blowing expensive speakers with a low powered amp than you have blowing cheap speakers with a high powered amp.

If you crank up the volume on a low power/quality amp, the signal will start clipping, effectively generating DC current for short periods of time. That's what will kill speakers before anything else.

But as Bobby says, let your ears tell you when to turn down the volume.

2Fast · 03-15-2005, 05:07 PM

You need to turn down the amplifier output power and bass dials to zero before you turn it all on, then when running, select a loud track turn your pc volume up to max and turn the amp controls back up in small increments untill you are happy that you have maximum volume and bass without distortion.
With this setup you won't have to worry about accidentally damaging you speakers.

Blackrazor · 03-15-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by froop

You actually have more chance blowing expensive speakers with a low powered amp than you have blowing cheap speakers with a high powered amp.

If you crank up the volume on a low power/quality amp, the signal will start clipping, effectively generating DC current for short periods of time. That's what will kill speakers before anything else.

Not trying to pick a fight or anything, and i'm not dissing you personally, but thats bollocks. This is the biggest old wives tale ever told in car audio, and it just refuses to die.

Power is power. Your speaker doesnt care less whether its pure sine wave, square wave, saw wave, whatever wave you so desire, its still power. The speaker dissipates more than 99% of input power as heat... the shape of the wave will affect how nasty it sounds to your ears, but mechanically and thermally the speaker couldnt give two hoots.

If running your speakers off less power than they are rated to could damage them, then they'd blow up whenever you turned your volume down. If you dont beleive me, go buy a sub rated to handle 100wRMS constant, and then feed it off a 20w amp... then clip the amp as hard as you POSSIBLY can, and the sub wont be bothered in the slightest.

The ONLY things that can damage a speaker is mechanical overexcursion (caused by too much power for the installation or enclosure) or thermal overload (caused by putting too much power into the coil)

If you still dont beleive me, have a read of : http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm , he explains it in detail.

273BeLow · 03-15-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DarquePervert

DIN is a size specification. It has nothing to do with the power output.
There is a very good chance of blowing those stock speakers. Stock speakers are designed to work with the stock stereo, which is usally very low power output.

hey yea I meant I would be running them off of an amp *rather* than a DIN radio unit with it's own tiny built in amp. Hence my worry as you point out of possible blow out.

273BeLow · 03-15-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobby Digital

I would have to agree with Blackrazor, as long as you don't turn them up to the point where they are distorting you should be ok. Just make sure you don't crank it by mistake cuz then you may blow them.

That being said, you should look into a speaker upgrade anyhow. What's the point of having such a nice in-car entertainment setup (carputer) with crappy sound?

taking this as a responce to everyone saying it will be ok seems more people think it will be ok.

As for not getting better speakers only money really I have them if they work that's fine. Saying that I wouldn't mind some better ones (maybe next month..)

so anyone want to recommend some decent speakers that don't cost the earth?

273BeLow · 03-15-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2FastMR2

You need to turn down the amplifier output power and bass dials to zero before you turn it all on, then when running, select a loud track turn your pc volume up to max and turn the amp controls back up in small increments untill you are happy that you have maximum volume and bass without distortion.
With this setup you won't have to worry about accidentally damaging you speakers.

thanks sounds the most sensible thing to do never going to be worried about a sub in my car as long as the people in the front and back can hear what is going on I dont mind.

A nice HT set up with 5.1 is lovely though

in the end if I do somehow blow them well more of an excuse for new speakers eh?

RedGTiVR6 · 03-15-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by froop

You actually have more chance blowing expensive speakers with a low powered amp than you have blowing cheap speakers with a high powered amp.

If you crank up the volume on a low power/quality amp, the signal will start clipping, effectively generating DC current for short periods of time. That's what will kill speakers before anything else.

But as Bobby says, let your ears tell you when to turn down the volume.

actyally, this is correct, to a point....it's definately not complete BS

DISTORTION is what will kill a speaker.

By running too little power on a speaker, you will naturally turn it up because you aren't getting the power out of it that you want. Thus the statement above. When turning up those amplifiers that are under powering those speakers, you are pushing that amplifier to its limits, and you will induce distortion because of this. Since the amp is being asked to produce more power than it is built for.

by running too much power on a speaker you are less likely to feel the need to turn it up. usually when you run too much power you are not using all of that power, thus you are not running into the limits of the amplifier. Thus....less distortion.

is it not ture that distortion can lead to more heat in a coil thus causing thermal overload?

So no Blackrazor...froop is not completely wrong...just not fully explained...lol

you are both saying the same things, just getting about them in different ways...

Blackrazor · 03-15-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

DISTORTION is what will kill a speaker.

No it will not.

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

is it not ture that distortion can lead to more heat in a coil thus causing thermal overload?

Not in any electrically significant amount it wont, no.

Trust me on this one, i've been through this argument many times before on the other car audio forums, and with customers, and i've always been able to show them why its incorrect. I'd prefer not to have to get technical as that just confuses the average joe, but distortion does NOT do anything to a speaker other than sound crap, and i can scientifically prove you that.

As i stated before, the only things that will kill a speaker is mechanical over excursion, and thermal overload. To a speaker, power is power, it doesnt care whether its clean power or full of distortion. So long as it can dissipate the heat that that power causes in the coil, then its fine.

100w of pure distortion is no worse for a speaker than 100w of perfect signal. Well, ok, to be technically correct, 100w of pure distortion is no worse for a speaker than about 99.9w of perfect signal, but the difference is audibly and measurably meaningless

Feel free to debate the point, but i'll then feel free to being out Mr Physics and Mr Mathematics and i dont think 273 would be too keen on that

RedGTiVR6 · 03-15-2005, 08:45 PM

wow dood - you sure do like to talk down to people don't you?

awful snotty for a n00b

Blackrazor · 03-15-2005, 08:58 PM

I'm not talking down to anyone, just straight talking, different culture remember, and its a forum so dont read too much into the way i type

I am certainly not a n00b... might be new to this forum, but this subforum is titled 'Car Audio', and when it comes to Car Audio, i most definately know what i'm talking about

I'm sorry if i came across as pompous or arrogant, i wasnt meaning that at all, please accept my apology if i did, i'm just being very firm because its important people know whats what on this issue, theres a lot of misinformation and therefore wasted money because of this topic

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