Audio Phase of my Installation

Osiris · 04-03-2005, 09:42 AM

Now that I have had my carputer in my car for about a month now I am ready to move on to the audio stage of my installation. I dont want the focus of my car to be the carputer so I am looking for a discrete low profile, low power setup. When I say low power, I mean low draw on the cars vehicle system. I have come to the conclusion that the best method of doing this is going with a 5 channel amp. That way I wont have two amps and an inverter pulling from my alternator and I can still benefit from an entry level sub in my setup. Is this a correct assumption?

I did some looking around and found these so far. Let me know what you think of this and will it work.

Hifonics ZX8000 5 Channel Amp

Rockford Fosgate Stage1 Sub

I have 6x8 Pioneers that run about 60watts rms and 6 1/2's in the rear that are about 50watts rms. The RF sub would be 150rms.

*edit* Also do you guys recommend the 12" or 10" version of the RF sub?

Osiris · 04-09-2005, 09:36 AM

C'mon guys, need a little help.

BUMP

BMVEE · 04-09-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Osiris

Now that I have had my carputer in my car for about a month now I am ready to move on to the audio stage of my installation. I dont want the focus of my car to be the carputer so I am looking for a discrete low profile, low power setup. When I say low power, I mean low draw on the cars vehicle system. I have come to the conclusion that the best method of doing this is going with a 5 channel amp. That way I wont have two amps and an inverter pulling from my alternator and I can still benefit from an entry level sub in my setup. Is this a correct assumption?

I did some looking around and found these so far. Let me know what you think of this and will it work.

Hifonics ZX8000 5 Channel Amp

Rockford Fosgate Stage1 Sub

I have 6x8 Pioneers that run about 60watts rms and 6 1/2's in the rear that are about 50watts rms. The RF sub would be 150rms.

*edit* Also do you guys recommend the 12" or 10" version of the RF sub?

Power is additive...be it current(flow (I1+I2+I3 where I=amps)) or consumption (watts (P1+P2+P3 where P=watts)) If you have a single 5 channel amp that draws 2 amps at peak power and 2 amps that draw 1 amp at peak power... you are using 2 amps of power... so don't feel limited to one amp if you are concerned about that. The rest is research. You'll have to find the mean idle static load of the amplifiers you select and do the math, and there's no one that can help you with that. Research is your friend here... Likely the local stereo shop will not be too concerned with your need for low power consumption as normally, someone who is going aftermarket will accomodate for power requirements... that might be the way you want to direct your thoughts. Often times, a good transmission network (cabling) & source (alternator/battery(ies)... usually not too expensive) is the best plan. Further, you might want to look into a good power management controller for your carputer installation.

As for the sub (what do you mean by RF?)... will it be mounted FREEAIR, or PORTED in a box engineered box... Size matters, but, I find that the bigger you go, the "looser" your bass color will be. Smaller is tighter (punch). This is where the advice of a local stereo pro will be helpful... it is a good idea to just BS with one... usually... those guys love to hear themselves talk. Get their info, come back here and get yet more opionions.

Sorry... I know this is a bit vague (I am trying to be helpful), but your question is pretty subjective. Keep an open mind to solve this problem... you don't want to disappoint yourself.

sdashiki · 04-09-2005, 10:18 AM

I love my Rockford 600.5

its either 50wx4 or 75wx4 and 100wx1 bridged into my 1 JL 10"s

I got it cuz in the past ive had up to 4 amps at one time with 3 half caps and a ****load of wires and fuses. Too much hassle and clutter, so I cut it down to a five channel which are AWESOME cuz they save space and if u buy the right one it puts out just what you need.

As for power consumption, i did notice the 5 channel not needing the half caps so maybe that had something to do with it.

As for subs, 10"s are fine if u buy correctly and math the RMS rating to the RMS of you amp. And 12"s if you can fit them sound deeper slightly and may pound harder but along the same lines as the 10s u need to match ratings and 12s take more so its a more $ amp.

Nic · 04-09-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BMVEE

Power is additive...be it current(flow (I1+I2+I3 where I=amps)) or consumption (watts (P1+P2+P3 where P=watts)) If you have a single 5 channel amp that draws 2 amps at peak power and 2 amps that draw 1 amp at peak power... you are using 2 amps of power... so don't feel limited to one amp if you are concerned about that. The rest is research. You'll have to find the mean idle static load of the amplifiers you select and do the math, and there's no one that can help you with that. Research is your friend here... Likely the local stereo shop will not be too concerned with your need for low power consumption as normally, someone who is going aftermarket will accomodate for power requirements... that might be the way you want to direct your thoughts. Often times, a good transmission network (cabling) & source (alternator/battery(ies)... usually not too expensive) is the best plan. Further, you might want to look into a good power management controller for your carputer installation.

As for the sub (what do you mean by RF?)... will it be mounted FREEAIR, or PORTED in a box engineered box... Size matters, but, I find that the bigger you go, the "looser" your bass color will be. Smaller is tighter (punch). This is where the advice of a local stereo pro will be helpful... it is a good idea to just BS with one... usually... those guys love to hear themselves talk. Get their info, come back here and get yet more opionions.

Sorry... I know this is a bit vague (I am trying to be helpful), but your question is pretty subjective. Keep an open mind to solve this problem... you don't want to disappoint yourself.

(edited part out here because i misread the post) i find the best type of enclosure (to my taste) is sealed, free air just sucks and should be avoided and i dont particularly like the sound of ported boxes. and RF is rockford fosgate

i dont really know much about that amp so i cant comment there but my personal taste for subs is 12" not 10", again it comes down to personal taste and what you listen to, stuff with boomy bass is good with bigger subs

Osiris · 04-09-2005, 12:06 PM

*note* By RF, I meant Rockford Fosgate. *note*

I am leaning towards a sealed box definetly no bigger than a 1.5. Cant stand the sound and the size of bandpasses, ported may be a possibility and free air is out of the question. I want the box to be as small as possible also because as i stated in my first post, I dont want the computer/audio system to be the center of attention. Ive been semi into mobile audio for about 10yrs now and know the routine with the install shops. But Im really in no mood to shoot the $#it with them because they either want to up-sell me something or convince me whatever brand im thinking of buying isnt good enough not realizing that im not looking for a standard mobile audio install. Plus most local shop either dont carry something as off-market as a 5 channel or dont have it hooked to the display wall.

So for the last two months ive been racking my brain with mind numbing amounts of amp info and without no real way to hear them im still lost.

sdashiki: are you happy with your 5 channel setup or would you go something different?

BMVEE: Where do you get the manufactures specs on the amps/subs. Alot of the sites have dumbed down or generics set of specs. Sometimes you can access the users manual via .pdf and see the specs but this is rare. Adding anymore cables and batteries than that I allready have is out of the question. Defeats the purpose of a simple install and just more stuff that I dont want in my car. Im more focused on the car itself and just want to hear decent music.

What Im Looking For.
Generally what I need know is good solution for my carputer to have an amplified 4 channel speaker setup and a sub to cover the low ends that is more than noticable to me. I want to try to stay away from high draw amps also. Im not looking to spend much on the amp nor the sub. Thats why I chose the Hifonics and Rockford Fosgate sub. Basically it comes down to power effeciency, cost, and sql (not interested in spl).

I will be soon replacing all the interior speakers with Infinity kappa's and getting rid of the Pioneers. Thats a prime example of where I wanna go. Pioneers were more than good but the Ininitys overall have a greater sound quality and are around the same price. Hope this better explains more of what Im looking for. Thanx for the replies.

BMVEE · 04-10-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Osiris

*note* By RF, I meant Rockford Fosgate. *note*

BMVEE: Where do you get the manufactures specs on the amps/subs. Alot of the sites have dumbed down or generics set of specs. Sometimes you can access the users manual via .pdf and see the specs but this is rare. Adding anymore cables and batteries than that I allready have is out of the question. Defeats the purpose of a simple install and just more stuff that I dont want in my car. Im more focused on the car itself and just want to hear decent music.

What Im Looking For.
Generally what I need know is good solution for my carputer to have an amplified 4 channel speaker setup and a sub to cover the low ends that is more than noticable to me. I want to try to stay away from high draw amps also. Im not looking to spend much on the amp nor the sub. Thats why I chose the Hifonics and Rockford Fosgate sub. Basically it comes down to power effeciency, cost, and sql (not interested in spl).

I will be soon replacing all the interior speakers with Infinity kappa's and getting rid of the Pioneers. Thats a prime example of where I wanna go. Pioneers were more than good but the Ininitys overall have a greater sound quality and are around the same price. Hope this better explains more of what Im looking for. Thanx for the replies.

Ya know... I'm probably going to have to put on my flame retardant suit, but I've always been a big fan of Pioneer. The stuff works very well and has always been pretty power efficient. I know the HiFonics, RF, Orion, SoundStream... et al are more popular, but they use juice to do it. If you are intersted in low power consumption, but want a 5 channel to run everything (sounds like you are more into what I am into now... done car stereo to death and just want nice sound), I think I'd look at Japanese amps... not the favorite of most boom SPLers, but for what you are wanting, I think it's a good alternative. They are, as a rule, pretty power lean.

I agree with everyone, free air sucks, but I was only asking questions. If you are like me, you are looking for tight, punchy bass, so I'd go with more smaller subs rather than big ones. One 10 is doin' it for me. I also like the fact that they don't need as much space for install.

Getting the specs will be your challenge I guess. PDF manuals, or phone calls to the manufacturers are usually the best source. Most of the manufacturers have 800 numbers that you can call for pre sales support.

If you want another alternative to the Infinity Kappas, Look at MB Quart. They have a very rich sound that isn't too bright or dull and have a very rich bottom end. My personal slant is that Alpine, Infinity and Pioneer are usually a bit bright for my listening pleasure. That said, the Infinitys are nice.

As for keeping it simple, I've gone so far as to use the existing OEM amp in my 3er and added a small amp for my factory sub (yes, Pioneer

). I, like you, want a nice sound that fills the car comfortably and sounds good. I'd love to have the big power since low level stuff tends to sound much richer, but I don't want it at the cost of simplicity. I have a ski pass thru which in which I have installed a 10" sub. It's completely hidden and adds just enough bottom end to fill in the gaps. It's no where near the other stuff I've done over the years, but I just don't want to start chasing the audio dragon again.

I wish you good luck!

OK... I'm off the soap box now

mbuchman · 04-10-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Osiris

I am leaning towards a sealed box definetly no bigger than a 1.5. Cant stand the sound and the size of bandpasses, ported may be a possibility and free air is out of the question. I want the box to be as small as possible also because as i stated in my first post, I dont want the computer/audio system to be the center of attention.

1.5 cubes is pretty big if you ask me. My 12" sub only wants a .95 or so cubic foot box (sealed of course). And I just made a box for a friend who obtained an RF sub for free (10"), and just to let you know, the ported box they had in the book was 1.5 cubes, so if you are willing to do ported, just make the one in the book! (assuming the box plans will be similar). Oh, and RF subs really like ported boxes from what I have heard.

Matt

WhiteRabbit · 04-10-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Osiris

I have come to the conclusion that the best method of doing this is going with a 5 channel amp.

Something I would think about, is if my amp blew, I'd have to replace a 5 channel amp. If I ran two amps and one blew, I would have to replace that amp instead.

which is gonna be a more costly fix.......

Osiris · 04-10-2005, 10:23 PM

I agree with alot of what you said BMVEE. Ive done the big power sound setups before and Im in now way interested in that type of deal anymore. Nor am I interested in the problems associated with them either

.

If I dont go with a 5 channel, I will most likely be getting the new line of Pioneer amps. After doing a little more reading I have found some very useful info. According to THIS SITE I have 32 amps to spare. Pioneers online user manual state that their 4 channel amp pulls a maximum of 15amps. Im sure this would be under heavy use also. If I add a comparable Pioneer amp for the subs then I should be within my limit. Im not sure but I think that the inverter pulls about 7 amps max.

The problem I have now is A) space for two amps and B) wire management. I have a 4awg wire running into the trunk. At the trunk it goes into a distribution block that splits it into two 8gauge wires. If I get a 3 way distribution block that goes from 4gauge into three 8gauge wires will this be too much of a split?

shizzle · 04-10-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

Something I would think about, is if my amp blew, I'd have to replace a 5 channel amp. If I ran two amps and one blew, I would have to replace that amp instead.

which is gonna be a more costly fix.......

With two amps, you are twice as likely to have problems with an amp.

Osiris · 04-10-2005, 10:38 PM

The good thing is that it looks like alot of online retailers are trying to get rid of the Hifonics ZX8000 for newer equipment. Now it can be found as low as $199. I cant put together two amps of decent quality for that much. After about 3 weeks of googling on this amp alone I have only found one negative review of this product. Something about it died and the online retailer took forever to replace it. But other who have dealt with Hifonics directly have said they have some of the best warranty policies in the world. Hmmmm... still undecided.

WhiteRabbit · 04-10-2005, 11:19 PM

find some people who have owned the hifonics zeus series amps and ask them what kind of heat issues they have had. playing times, volume levels, etc. make sure its got a good cooling rep. I'd hate to see you spend so much time working out the audio part of your setup to only be able to play it five minutes before the amp shuts off due to thermal protect!

Osiris · 04-10-2005, 11:41 PM

Through doing a search here at mp3car.com i noticed that you owned a Hifonics that you were selling. How did you like that one?

WhiteRabbit · 04-11-2005, 12:03 AM

it was sweet. havent sold it yet, actually.

But it is important to make the distinction between the XI series amplifiers and the zeus series amplifiers. Even the VII series amplifiers are held to be miles above the XI series amplfiiers held to be miles above the brutus amplifiers, which I happen to like better htan the zeus series amplifiers.....

general internet consensus is the ancient amps without doubt built by zed are competition quality amplifiers. the XI series has been held as a mid level amp. I liked it, tons of power even at low voltage, and more features and accessories than I could shake a stick at.

but the zeus series amplifiers are not in the same league as the VII or XI series amplifiers. my XI isnt even in the same league as the VI era amps. So that difference is superimportant to make clear. That I enjoyed mine is not to say I would even think about endorsing a zeus series amp, no matter what generation or model.

but I have to admit, for an entry level sound and all the apparent heat problems of the zeus series amps, it seems that not everyone has those heat issues. So I would talk to as many as you can find who owned a zeus to see how many have heat issues. the two Ive gotten a chance to play with had massive heat issues, one of which would shut off, the other would simply warm tortillas better than a microwave. But I should say that not everyone has the problem. In fact, there seems to be a ton of brand loyalty to hifonics, those who dont tend to drag down the ones who talk about the heat problems. that kind of fan base has to come from something!

but its just a potential heads up.