Why not PC speakers? - Page 2

Snootch · 03-12-2006, 09:46 PM

I think the main issue with using these speakers is the car environment. Car speakers have to be built from materials that can withstand repeated warming/cooling cycles, vibration, and direct sunlight.

Mandos · 03-14-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by checksum

That is not true

Care to explain how?

There's a reason that a DIY home theater is much cheaper for the quality than a HTIB, it's because you build the enclosures instead of paying for them and can invest money in a quality speaker.

chuyler1 · 03-14-2006, 12:03 PM

The price difference has very little to do with the drivers. HTIB costs more because a) it's a plug and play solution b) the manufacturer has to assemble everything and c) the manufacturer has to ship everything all pieced together and ready to plug in. The plastic or fiberboard enclosures they come in are simply the cheapest thing they can find that is easy to assemble, lightweight, and inexpensive to ship.

That pretty much sums up most HTIB setups. There are some exceptions. Bose likes to put lots of R&D into their enclosures (ie the wave radio) but that is so they can put a small cheap speaker in an enclosure that will make it sound much more expensive to the average listener.

Now if we were discussing dedicated home audio speaker towers (the kind you would never use to watch movies with) then the enclosure has a little more impact on the price. These types of speakers are as much a piece of fine furniture as they are a speaker enclosure. Many are made out of exotic woods with premium finishes. Their design R&D fits somewhere between the slap-together HTIB and the extensive research that Bose does. The speakers are expensive and the box is taylored accordingly.

DIYers can save money by simply purchasing the drivers and using the combined effort of online forums as their R&D for buildig the idea enclosure. They can use cheap wood and just paint it. There's your savings.

Mandos · 03-14-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chuyler1

The price difference has very little to do with the drivers. HTIB costs more because a) it's a plug and play solution b) the manufacturer has to assemble everything and c) the manufacturer has to ship everything all pieced together and ready to plug in. The plastic or fiberboard enclosures they come in are simply the cheapest thing they can find that is easy to assemble, lightweight, and inexpensive to ship.

That pretty much sums up most HTIB setups. There are some exceptions. Bose likes to put lots of R&D into their enclosures (ie the wave radio) but that is so they can put a small cheap speaker in an enclosure that will make it sound much more expensive to the average listener.

Now if we were discussing dedicated home audio speaker towers (the kind you would never use to watch movies with) then the enclosure has a little more impact on the price. These types of speakers are as much a piece of fine furniture as they are a speaker enclosure. Many are made out of exotic woods with premium finishes. Their design R&D fits somewhere between the slap-together HTIB and the extensive research that Bose does. The speakers are expensive and the box is taylored accordingly.

DIYers can save money by simply purchasing the drivers and using the combined effort of online forums as their R&D for buildig the idea enclosure. They can use cheap wood and just paint it. There's your savings.

Exactly...the driver involved is often a very inexpensive one w/ any HTIB.

Same as comparing say...$150 PC speakers to a $150 component set for the car. Unless the install skills of the person putting them in are serverly inadequate, the component set will blow the speakers out of the water.

checksum · 03-14-2006, 02:18 PM

You show me any car speakers, and I will show you a competing PC speaker that matches its sound quality with even more power.
PC speakers have come a long way, from stereo sound to 7.1 THX surround sound. Nowadays PC speakers can go up to 700W of power with sound quality that can compete against any major sound theater system,, and they are compact enough to fit in a car, even with the enclosure, just have to find the right way to mount it, since they all come with brakets.

To tell you the truth, I wanted to go with my 500W 5.1 PC speakers ( these speakers only cost me 300.00). but I did a lot of research and come out empty on how to power it in the car. I would need a 500W pure sine inverter wich costs around $500.00 to power it. But beside that, I don't think you would notice the difference between these PC speakers and the Car speakers.

b8bboi · 03-14-2006, 02:24 PM

That's the ******* point! No cars can provide clean, continuous 500 watts of power.

chuyler1 · 03-14-2006, 03:00 PM

I will agree with you that you cannot get quality 5.1 surround sound with only $300 worth of car audio gear. But you are comparing apples with oranges.

Let's say there wasn't a power issue and you could plug your system directly into the car and place the speakers around the interior and the subwoofer in the trunk/hatch. First, you would notice that there is a huge gap in sound between 80-200Hz where the satelite speakers simply cannot produce sound. Now pull out onto the road. Once up to speed your subwoofer will be come one with the road noise and will barely cut through. The small driver might shake your house but in a car all of it's sound will be drowned out by the road and absorbed by the interior panels, carpet, and headliner. In your home the bass can bounce off the walls, ceiling (and possibly the floor) creating full boomy sound. Not so in a car. If installed in a trunk, the sound will barely make it through the rear seat. Furthermore, the sub is designed to handle a wider range (usually up to 250-300Hz) and if it is installed in the rear of your car it simply won't project and all male voices and bass instruments will get pulled to the rear of the car and sound as if they were behind you.

Ok now about the power issue. AC and DC power supplies are two completely different breeds. You said it yourself that there simply isn't a way to power it. You might be able to find a way but there is no way the music will be as dynamic as using a 12v native amplifier.

And how about power ratings? You said your system is 500w. Is that 500w RMS? More likely max power. How much distortion do you have to send the speakers to actually get 500w? I doubt the satelite channels on the amplifier are much better than the 10-15w you get from a factory head unit.

And then you have the speakers. I already mentioned they probably can't play much below 150-250Hz. A car audio 5.25" speaker can play down to 100Hz easily. Upgrade to a 6.5" or 6x8" speaker and you won't have any problems playing down to 70Hz. The result is full range sound from your satelite channels.

With the satelites playing the bulk of your music/sound the subwoofer only has to handle 20-80Hz. Car audio woofers are optimized for this range with large voice coils, strong baskets, and long excursion motor systems. They can and will play 20Hz. Try popping out a 20Hz sine wave on your current system. If you're lucky it will burb at you and then go silent.

Mandos · 03-14-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chuyler1

I will agree with you that you cannot get quality 5.1 surround sound with only $300 worth of car audio gear. But you are comparing apples with oranges.

Let's say there wasn't a power issue and you could plug your system directly into the car and place the speakers around the interior and the subwoofer in the trunk/hatch. First, you would notice that there is a huge gap in sound between 80-200Hz where the satelite speakers simply cannot produce sound. Now pull out onto the road. Once up to speed your subwoofer will be come one with the road noise and will barely cut through. The small driver might shake your house but in a car all of it's sound will be drowned out by the road and absorbed by the interior panels, carpet, and headliner. In your home the bass can bounce off the walls, ceiling (and possibly the floor) creating full boomy sound. Not so in a car. If installed in a trunk, the sound will barely make it through the rear seat. Furthermore, the sub is designed to handle a wider range (usually up to 250-300Hz) and if it is installed in the rear of your car it simply won't project and all male voices and bass instruments will get pulled to the rear of the car and sound as if they were behind you.

Ok now about the power issue. AC and DC power supplies are two completely different breeds. You said it yourself that there simply isn't a way to power it. You might be able to find a way but there is no way the music will be as dynamic as using a 12v native amplifier.

And how about power ratings? You said your system is 500w. Is that 500w RMS? More likely max power. How much distortion do you have to send the speakers to actually get 500w? I doubt the satelite channels on the amplifier are much better than the 10-15w you get from a factory head unit.

And then you have the speakers. I already mentioned they probably can't play much below 150-250Hz. A car audio 5.25" speaker can play down to 100Hz easily. Upgrade to a 6.5" or 6x8" speaker and you won't have any problems playing down to 70Hz. The result is full range sound from your satelite channels.

With the satelites playing the bulk of your music/sound the subwoofer only has to handle 20-80Hz. Car audio woofers are optimized for this range with large voice coils, strong baskets, and long excursion motor systems. They can and will play 20Hz. Try popping out a 20Hz sine wave on your current system. If you're lucky it will burb at you and then go silent.

Well said...well said indeed

3onDubs · 03-14-2006, 04:31 PM

For $300 you could have gotten a 4 channel amp, a component set, a coaxial set, and had $100 left to buy an audigy NX in the classifieds.

tj!2k4 · 03-14-2006, 04:39 PM

checksum, you asked a question "why not" and then you want to find fault with the answers. If you want to install home PC speakers in your car, then do it. Just don't start another thread crying about it when you come to the conclusion that you made the wrong decision.

mbuchman · 03-14-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by checksum

You show me any car speakers, and I will show you a competing PC speaker that matches its sound quality with even more power.
PC speakers have come a long way, from stereo sound to 7.1 THX surround sound. Nowadays PC speakers can go up to 700W of power with sound quality that can compete against any major sound theater system,, and they are compact enough to fit in a car, even with the enclosure, just have to find the right way to mount it, since they all come with brakets.

To tell you the truth, I wanted to go with my 500W 5.1 PC speakers ( these speakers only cost me 300.00). but I did a lot of research and come out empty on how to power it in the car. I would need a 500W pure sine inverter wich costs around $500.00 to power it. But beside that, I don't think you would notice the difference between these PC speakers and the Car speakers.

For starters, you could go to your local car audio shop and ask for some Diamond Audio/Boston Accoustic/Focal speakers... no way in hell any computer speaker will ever match up with those. Just not going to happen.

Just for starters, find speakers that would match the Boston Accoustic Z6 with a JL 12W7 subwoofer. Then, go to a car installation shop, dont show them anything, and ask them to see if they can guess what you have in their by listening. Your setup should in your mind be as good or better than those speakers, so they should guess in that high of a product category, right?

Hell, just take those 300 dollars speakers, put them in, and I bet that the stock radio would be right their in sound quality with them (assuming the stock speakers don't take the SQ prize).

Oh, and typically, when they advertize wattage, as previously mentioned, its max output, and also is probably most consumed in the subwoofer. The satelites are probably 10w speakers max, 2rms. Not to mention that wattage does not really play a significance in how a setup will perform...

So if you still think that computer speakers are better fit for the job, then by all means go for it, but we all warned you

-Matt

3onDubs · 03-14-2006, 04:58 PM

Round Hurr We Like To Use Things For What They Were Made For

Do you guys remember that one kid in preschool that couldn't figure out why the circle block wouldn't fit in the triangle hole?

Poor lil guy...never kept in touch.