Alternator Whine Only With Carputer

tbird2340 · 03-11-2006, 09:49 AM

I just replaced my carputer with an upgraded version. New case, mobo, cpu, etc.

Ever since I replaced it the alternator whine is VERY bad. The thing is.. My system sounds fine when I have the radio on or with a CD. It's only with my carputer..

What do I need to check?

I have an external USB sound card with RCA's going from it to a ground loop isolator to my AUX in of my deck.

Thanks for any help!

furball69 · 03-11-2006, 05:07 PM

I. The best cure is prevention. Take the time to sketch the system out before you begin the install. This graphic representation of the installation will help you to avoid introducing ground loops and will serve as a road map for eliminating noise if it is present.

II. Don't introduce ground loops. Ground loops are created whenever an audio ground is established at more than one location. Theoretically, the only place the audio ground should be connected to the chassis ground is at the source unit. In my experience, I've found that in systems that have noise problems, a ground loop is the culprit nine times out of ten.

III. Never run signal wires alongside power cables. This is especially true in installations where high powered amplifiers are used. Large amplifiers are capable of drawing large currents. These currents vary with the musical demand of the program material as does the electromagnetic field surrounding the power cable. The more current that flows through the wire, the bigger this field becomes. If audio cables are located in close proximity to this fluctuating electromagnetic field, noise could be induced into the system.

IV. Always use 100% shielded audio cable. This will insure maximum protection against induced noises by power cables and other sources of electromagnetic interference.

V. Never use the ground wire in the vehicle's OEM radio harness...

VI. Make sure the amplifiers have a good audio ground reference. In order for the amps to function properly, the audio ground must be referenced to chassis ground at the source unit. If it is not, the amplifier could oscillate. To check for a good ground reference, take a volt-ohm meter (VOM) and measure the resistance between the chassis of the radio and the shield of the RCA line level outputs of the radio. This reading should indicate a direct short. If this is not the case, grounding the shield of the RCA line level outputs to the chassis of the radio will probably be necessary.

VII. Keep amplifier power ground wires as short as possible. The longer a wire, the more resistance it has. When a current flows through a resistance, a voltage drop is produced. Because of this, the ground reference at the amplifier's circuit board is no longer the same as that at the chassis of the vehicle. This ground potential differential can lead to noise and improper operation of the amp.

VIII. Don't connect all of your amplifier ground wires under one bolt. Contrary to belief, this is not required if the rest of the system is installed properly. If you do connect more than one power ground wire under a single bolt, you run the risk of amplifier ground modulation. This is caused by the current demands of, for example a woofer amp, modulating the power ground wire of a tweeter amp. This results in a squeaking noise that can be heard over the tweeters whenever bass notes hit.

IX. Make sure all levels are set correctly. Level setting is a critical part of the installation process. If done properly, maximum system signal to noise ratio can be obtained. Keep in mind that you want to drive the audio cables that feed the amps in the rear of the car as hard as possible. To do this, reduce the gain of the amplifiers to minimum. Turn up the volume on the source unit to 80% of maximum. Now adjust the input sensitivity of the amplifiers upward until the maximum intended loudness is obtained.

X. Noise filters can only reduce noise, not eliminate it. A noise filter is just that, a filter. And like any other filter (crossover network, etc.), it works by modification, not elimination. Some installers rely on filters heavily. In some instances a filter may prove necessary, but I believe that if the system is installed properly, a filter is usually not required...

Alternator Whine

To me, alternator whine is the most annoying form of noise. For those of you who are lucky enough never to have been exposed to alternator whine, it sounds like a miniature siren that rises in pitch with the speed of the engine. Alternator whine is almost always caused by a ground loop. The following steps will aid you in locating and correcting a ground loop problem.

Verify that all levels are set properly. (Click here for related article.)
With the system turned off, unplug the RCA inputs to the amplifier.
Start the vehicle and turn the system on. If the noise is gone go to step 8. If the noise is still present, it is coming from the amp or the speaker wiring. Continue.
Turn the system off and disconnect the speaker harness.
Start the engine and verify that no noise is present. In a few rare instances, I have actually heard speakers reproduce noise without being connected to an amplifier. This noise was being induced by power cables that were very close to the speaker wire. If you do have this type of noise, reroute the appropriate speaker lead and go to step 3.
With the speaker harness still disconnected, check to make sure there are no shorts between the speaker leads and the chassis of the vehicle. A shorted negative speaker lead will create a ground loop by establishing a second audio ground reference point. If you do have a short, trace the wire out and repair it then go to step 3.
With the RCA inputs and speaker harness still disconnected from the amplifier, use your VOM to measure from the shield of the RCA jacks on the amp to the chassis of the vehicle. This reading should not be a direct short (100 ohms or more is acceptable.) If this reading does indicate a direct short, you might have a defective amp and should contact the manufacturer for verification. (Note that there are a few "inexpensive" amps or boosters on the market that have their audio ground and electrical ground commoned internally. For units of this type, the information in this article will be of very little value.)
If you've made it here, you know that the amplifier and speaker wiring are okay.
Connect the accessories in front of the amp (crossovers, equalizers, etc.) one at a time and check for alternator whine. When each device is tested, there should be nothing plugged into the input of that device. In this way, we will work toward the source unit piece by piece. Be sure to turn the system power off before connecting or disconnecting any cables or accessories.
Repeat step 9 until all accessories have been tested.
If a particular accessory is causing noise, try disconnecting it's power ground wire. Go to step 9.
Now it's time to connect the source unit. Do that now and test for noise.
If noise is present, try unplugging the antenna. If the noise goes away, you will need to use an antenna isolator. This little gismo opens the shield wire of the coax to eliminate the ground loop caused by the ground at the antenna.
If you still have noise, try connecting the source unit's ground wire in another location,. preferably as close to the source unit as possible.
Does the noise vary in amplitude when you adjust the volume control? If it does, the problem is probably power line related and not a ground loop. If this is the case, run the source unit's B+ (yellow) wire directly to the positive terminal of the battery. If this doesn't do the trick, you will probably have to use a power line filter on the source unit's B+ (Yel) and Ignition (Red) wires.
Ignition Noise

Ignition noise is another type of noise that is quite annoying. It usually sounds like a popping or buzzing sound whenever the engine is running. The best cure is to remove the motor but since we can't do that, we will have to rely on some other form of remedy. Follow the steps below to eliminate or reduce ignition noise.

Make sure you are using resistor type spark plugs and resistor type plug wires.
Determine where the noise is coming from. If the noise is a popping sound that occurs 2 or 3 times a second, you probably have a loose or bad plug wire. First, make sure that all plug wires are seated properly. If this doesn't do the trick, you may have a bad plug wire. Usually this occurs due to a pinhole in the insulation of the wire. Whenever the plug wire is energized, an arc jumps through the pinhole to the chassis of the vehicle. Replace with silicone resistor plug wires.
If the noise is a buzzing sound, the problem is usually associated with the points, distributor, or coil. Try replacing the condenser on both the coil and points. Make sure all plug wires are seated properly in the distributor cap. Additionally, you might try adding a 2200 uF cap from the positive terminal on the coil to chassis ground.
Don't use the fuse block in the vehicle to derive power for the source unit. Run the Constant Hot B+ (memory) wire directly to the battery's positive terminal.
If you still have noise, it could be occurring because of induction. Try pulling the source unit out of the dash and check for noise. If the noise is eliminated, try rerouting any wiring harnesses that are close to the deck. If this is not possible, try using self adhesive metal shielding. This might just do the trick.
Copyright � 2002 by WHE Inc., Carson City Nevada, USA.

ramy_zohair · 03-12-2006, 02:36 AM

did you sit and type down all this or did you copy & pasted it off somewhere. Cuz if you typed it, it could make a nice thesis for your PHD

nice write-up

furball69 · 03-12-2006, 02:55 AM

type that... hell no!

it is cut and pasted, ie the copyright at the bottom.

Cris · 03-29-2006, 03:25 PM

Have you managed to get rid of the noise somehow...?

tbird2340 · 03-29-2006, 03:41 PM

Not really.. Basically said screw it and I'm dealing with it.. The amp and carputer are grounded in the same place and my wires are run the only way they can be so I don't know what else to check.

RedGTiVR6 · 03-29-2006, 03:48 PM

have you tried a different ground loop isolator?

pancit175 · 03-29-2006, 08:27 PM

Have you tried to ground the computer and headunit together. It seems to be where the problem is occuring. to be sure if there is a ground differential get a multimeter and test the resistance from the chasis ground of the computer with the chasis ground of the headunit

Pseudo Nim · 06-02-2006, 12:26 PM

I'm interested in 2 things (I have the same problem, and I'm trying to find a common denominator):

- how do you power your carputer - do you run a wire from the battery with a fuse, or are you splicing the wire from the head unit?
- try running your computer as is but through an inverter + a desktop power supply, rather than the M2-ATX. Another user on another thread suggested it might be the M2 (I'm not sure if it's SPECIFICALLY the M2, though, I'm grasping at straws here).

-pN

2k1Toaster · 06-07-2006, 01:02 AM

I have the same kind of alternator whine. It's pretty bad when you first start the car, then after a bit (I'm guessing after the battery has been recharged), it's not so bad. When the AC is turned on, the sound gets worse. It does not come from the speakers, definately the engine compartment.

It might just be that my alternator is incapable of outputting the required current so it is screaming "Help meeeeeee!"

Other thoughts?

crazy diamond · 06-07-2006, 05:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

- try running your computer as is but through an inverter + a desktop power supply, rather than the M2-ATX. Another user on another thread suggested it might be the M2 (I'm not sure if it's SPECIFICALLY the M2, though, I'm grasping at straws here).

-pN

My M1-ATX is coursing me a lot of interference problems, I have tried an ATX psu with an inverter and the noise stopped altogether, I'm waiting for a replacement to see if it is a faulty M1 but I'm not getting my hopes up, might go down the lines of an inverter and throw the M1 in the bin!

RedGTiVR6 · 06-07-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

I have the same kind of alternator whine. It's pretty bad when you first start the car, then after a bit (I'm guessing after the battery has been recharged), it's not so bad. When the AC is turned on, the sound gets worse. It does not come from the speakers, definately the engine compartment.

It might just be that my alternator is incapable of outputting the required current so it is screaming "Help meeeeeee!"

Other thoughts?

wait a second, you are saying that you have a whine coming from your engine compartment and NOT from your speakers?

something else is going on here then and it's not audio related.

if you have popped your hood can you isolate where the sound is coming from?

sounds really strange IMO

btw - it looks like your avatar is taking a dump...

RedGTiVR6 · 06-07-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by crazy diamond

My M1-ATX is coursing me a lot of interference problems, I have tried an ATX psu with an inverter and the noise stopped altogether, I'm waiting for a replacement to see if it is a faulty M1 but I'm not getting my hopes up, might go down the lines of an inverter and throw the M1 in the bin!

strange, I'm not having a single issue, and I've had my M1 in for over a year...then again, I am running optical

2k1Toaster · 06-07-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

wait a second, you are saying that you have a whine coming from your engine compartment and NOT from your speakers?

something else is going on here then and it's not audio related.

if you have popped your hood can you isolate where the sound is coming from?

sounds really strange IMO

It's the alternator. It sounds like it is overloaded or something. It's not extremely powerful, it is stock. Just had it replaced though because the old one took a crap. (Genuine Honda stock alternator now). It's the same kind of whine I got when (now this is before I found this site) plugged my laptop into an inverter through my cigarette lighter port. Like a squealing that increases in pitch as RPM's go up. Very annoying...

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

btw - it looks like your avatar is taking a dump...

It's a tail!!!!!

mick0uziel · 06-08-2006, 08:24 PM

i also had the same case, with my first carputer, a ground loop isolator and the monster cable worked to eliminate it. now that i built my 2nd carputer, its there again, i put in a ground loop isolator combined with a power noise eliminator but still whines. i bet its the rca cable i used. i should have used monster to begin with, now its costing me twice the money and effort, im gonna order the monster 302xln about $50 5meters long. i bet this would take out the whining.