1/3 Octave Software EQ - Page 5

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 02:01 PM

thanks quack. i actually asked david (centrafuse) about vst. he says it's not supported right now..hopefully with enough interest he will impliment it. anyone reading this should go and show interest on that thread.

on the hardware front, my orig 'tease' isn't as great as i was hoping but i found this:
http://www.stereo-link.com/Static/1200Desc.html

i'm researching this a bit more, but as far as the hardware side of this thread is concerned (it's an equally important part of the great sq equation) this looks promissing. It's one of the less expensive usb dac's out there. even though it's only two chan. it will be close to tha alpine's price even if you need two. this is better then the spdif-out to alpine because of the upsampling that spdif does to 44.1k. also spdif if one way where usb is two way and therefore error correction can be implemented. i'm not exactly sure if that is the case for the above linked product but i'm researching it. I want to find out if we can power it with a regulated 12volt psu and bypass the ac transformers.

Genesisfactor · 03-31-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

Genesis - I don't think you've gotten the whole point to this thread....lol

Hehe...maybe, but i'm not seeing how you're getting all that equipment into 2 Dins without hours and hours of design. see, there's the thermal aspect that needs to be addressed. you CAN cram all that into there spacially, but I've tried to cram in as much as i could without a complete meltdown in those hot days... The MP3+ with its RCA out, i had hoped, would be a compromise as we use a software eq for it all. Take it to a line driver/crossover, like a 3xs or 6xs, and you've got everything you wanted short of a screen. at 1-1.5 din you could probably fit a flip out screen and be done with it.

Instant on would be provided by the ram and CE.net or linux (lindows if need be). I mean, other than the sound issue noise issue that scott is complaining about

, i can't think of a better way to get mid to high end sound off of over-the-counter, and cheap, items, with the least about of computer progrmming expereince neccessary. Sure, i can cram in a PPC logic board (smallest and most powerful that i can think of that doens't need a fan or take up too much power) to do the sound processing and work around that, but i mean...why?

Sorry i missed the point though guys, i'll reread...maybe.

Scott, let's see what you got

(not a challenge, just curious

)

RedGTiVR6 · 03-31-2006, 03:12 PM

the MP3+ isn't applicable in these terms...we're looking for HIGH QUALITY, multiple RCA outs with high enough voltage to be worth a damn.

why? because searching for new and better options, and developing those new and better options is what makes the world go round

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by scott_fx

thanks quack. i actually asked david (centrafuse) about vst. he says it's not supported right now..hopefully with enough interest he will impliment it. anyone reading this should go and show interest on that thread.

on the hardware front, my orig 'tease' isn't as great as i was hoping but i found this:
http://www.stereo-link.com/Static/1200Desc.html

i'm researching this a bit more, but as far as the hardware side of this thread is concerned (it's an equally important part of the great sq equation) this looks promissing. It's one of the less expensive usb dac's out there. even though it's only two chan. it will be close to tha alpine's price even if you need two. this is better then the spdif-out to alpine because of the upsampling that spdif does to 44.1k. also spdif if one way where usb is two way and therefore error correction can be implemented. i'm not exactly sure if that is the case for the above linked product but i'm researching it. I want to find out if we can power it with a regulated 12volt psu and bypass the ac transformers.

this is the reply i got from the stereo-link company:
Dear Scott,

Thank you for your interest in stereo-link.

We have had at least one customer that we know about use the stereo-link in a custom car application a couple years ago. The system was posted on his website, but we cannot locate the link to it.

The stereo-link uses the built-in USB drivers in your operating system - we do not supply any special drivers. So any software that performs the functions you want should work.

The internal power supply generates +/- 5 V for the analog section, so you cannot connect it to a 12V system. We suggest you try some web searches to see if you can find the reference above. We will check again and pass on any information we find.

one thing i dont know about is the voltage on the outputs. i'll email them about that. but the usb dac options seem very promising if we can find the right specs.

's

RedGTiVR6 · 03-31-2006, 06:27 PM

I really appreciate this bit of information:

Quote:

I have a soundcard with SPDIF output. Isn't that as good?
Anyone who has been seriously looking at the performance of sound cards can tell you that what comes out of the S/PDIF output is probably not a very "clean" copy of the original. Many of the most popular soundcards perform all of their internal "processing" at a 48 kHz sampling rate, which is NOT the rate that most music (MP3's & CDs, for example) are recorded at. This means the music undergoes a sample rate conversion, which introduces a significant amount of distortion. Professional products that are designed to do this conversion correctly can cost thousands of dollars. Obviously your sound card isn't in that league. You can see examples of the problem by visiting our page.

Also, when you use coaxial SPDIF, you are connecting the computer's ground to your stereo system - not a terribly good idea. So the obvious question is, "won't the stereo-link have the same problem with the USB?" We've taken care of that by incorporating isolation circuitry to keep the computer ground separate from the analog output.

however, the fact that there's only 2 RCA outs on this thing worries me....your thoughts Scott?

Genesisfactor · 03-31-2006, 06:40 PM

okay, re read..i get it now and rethought it through. hopefully i'm at yoru level now. my biggest question is are we still sticking with a software based eq or no? That makes all the ifference in the world to me at this point..

Also, what's the price you guys are looking at designing with?

Also, with origami, and <$1000 handheld computers coming out soon, shoudlnt we wait to use that as the basics (use that screen (which is transflective and much better in general than any xenarac) ans use that logic board, software, and hardware for the base computer. It shoudl be alot easier to work with from there as then you solved most of the major issues, and now you have to deal with getting the sound you want (yes the driving factor, but still, with the space we save using an parted origami devce, we can do so much with).

I'll research a bit on the m-audio and the other solutions posted after rmy birthday. If anyone cares to IM me on aim and talk about this, my AIM is Genesis Factor. If a few of you guys aren't afraid to rip apart these things, if that's what you're going to end up doing, as that's hwat i woudl do, and woudl care to send me some measurements, that will be great as i will then 3d model it in Inventor and we can start with that. I'm highy interested in helping out, but just don't get me too jealous and want one of my own...i'm too close to finishing up my carputer to want to trash it in favor of this yet

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

however, the fact that there's only 2 RCA outs on this thing worries me....your thoughts Scott?

I think that it shouldn't be problem running two of these boards, but yes...getting the correct sgnals to each is what is worrying me. BUT...

I've been talking to a pro installer and he said that passive eq's work very well. it's when you get into ones that are adjustable that you get into trouble. Also i've been getting the same response from another guy at work that used to do mastering and is a true audiophile.

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

okay, re read..i get it now and rethought it through. hopefully i'm at yoru level now. my biggest question is are we still sticking with a software based eq or no? That makes all the ifference in the world to me at this point..

Also, what's the price you guys are looking at designing with?

Also, with origami, and <$1000 handheld computers coming out soon, shoudlnt we wait to use that as the basics (use that screen (which is transflective and much better in general than any xenarac) ans use that logic board, software, and hardware for the base computer. It shoudl be alot easier to work with from there as then you solved most of the major issues, and now you have to deal with getting the sound you want (yes the driving factor, but still, with the space we save using an parted origami devce, we can do so much with).

I'll research a bit on the m-audio and the other solutions posted after rmy birthday. If anyone cares to IM me on aim and talk about this, my AIM is Genesis Factor. If a few of you guys aren't afraid to rip apart these things, if that's what you're going to end up doing, as that's hwat i woudl do, and woudl care to send me some measurements, that will be great as i will then 3d model it in Inventor and we can start with that. I'm highy interested in helping out, but just don't get me too jealous and want one of my own...i'm too close to finishing up my carputer to want to trash it in favor of this yet

very cool genesis. I am trying to keep the component cost within a $100 of the apline units. There are other solutions that i've been talking to people over at kxproject about, but I think they'd get pretty pricey with some of the dac's that you'd need to use plus a soundcard and then you have to take into consideration the upsampling of spdif.

but as this thread started...this is almost totally based on getting a good software based eq. It would be great if we could get one of the front end authors to incorperate some of the vst plug-ins or sdk's. (i'd love for it to be centrafuse because i love that front end, but if someone else had it i'd have to switch front ends)

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 06:57 PM

i also noticed that m-audio has a sdk....hmmm, i wonder if anyone can cram a eq into there drivers :-)

Genesisfactor · 03-31-2006, 07:05 PM

so...with screen and everything, you want this all in one soltion to be around $500-$700? Maybe i'm overengineering, lol, but i was sticking with a total price of maybe $1500 for the prototype (~$800 for the comptuer, $300-$400 for sound processing, $50-$100 for fabrication- we'll need a shop for the double din solution, esp with the need for a screen that will slip down for the slot load-, and the rest to all the little odds and ends we're going to want to put into it). I mean, even 1500 seems a bit on the low side...assuming we dont' blow up soemthing

also, i'm going to need a crash cource in audiophile as i'm just a noob who researches:P

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 07:22 PM

sorry, i meant just the audio interface to be on par (costwise)with the alpine unit. i think trying to pigeon hole everyone on the forum to one particular hardware setup up is unrealistic. plus...we all have something that works, as far as the computer is concerned...i'm just focusing my energy and time on signal quality now.

oh, btw...are you a modeler? That how i earn my living :-) i work for a feature film effects studio. what's inventor though?

Genesisfactor · 03-31-2006, 07:52 PM

Inventor is Autodesk's atempt at 3d modelling and rendering and drawing detailing after the success of AutoCAD. Its a decent attempt..easy, intuitive, but has many falws. However, its fun and easy to work with. I am a Mechanical Engineer who was into robotics and comptuers (my first love after military stuff). What studio do you work for? I played aroudn with poser and bryce and what not, but i oculdnt' get serious into it as it was really...well...up there. My attempt at making a mini movie was awkward at best (a figure modelled after my friend with E cups...well...you know what poser does when you try to enhance the goods...let's jsut say that jaet jackson like momeent was the highlight of short...)

Oh, and i'm not trying to pigeon hole anyone...into wanything. I feel that a basic structure can be utilized for the main comnents and the rest can be customized into it. I have no probelsm making multiple renders...i mean, i'm still trying to figure out whether the project is going to be an all in one solution that deos everything or a solution that makes the best audio possible in a single/double din box

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 08:12 PM

i work for a company called digital domain. recently we did stealth and i,robot.
i went to college for mechanical engineering...well one year anyways :-) but i have never touched a cad program :-\

i didnt' realize we were going with trying to make something we could cram into a double din box. i thought the main goal of this thread was to find a software eq and the proper hardware to excede the alpine unit.

it's all good. we can all work on parts of this, first i think we should focus our attention on the audio aspect and then you guys can take the components and figure out how to cram it into a box...kinda form after function so we arent limiting ourselves on the hardware side (maybe you'd need a breakout box but that would be better anyways so the rca patch cables can put placed near/at the amp.)

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 09:18 PM

ok...here some more crap for us to look into. i am getting abit confused so i'm asking the masses about this one. Has anyone used Foobar2000? is this something we could work into our systems? from what i've read it seem promising. don't know the exact details of how much we can integrate from it but maybe you guys can shed some light on the subject...

what we need now is a programmer on this thread to take on this project. hey red...you have the strongest reputation out of all of us...how about you troll through the software section and try to get us one of them smart people. (the ones that know about 1's and 0's...not saying we're dumb)

Quack · 03-31-2006, 09:49 PM

Y'all have some great ideas and I hope they work out, but aren't we getting a little off the original concept of this thread? Originally we were looking for a software-based EQ to supplement our existing system. The project you're starting to talk about sounds like it may be overkill based on what we were originally trying to accomplish...though the ideas are very interesting.

I've gotten a lot out of this thread...enough to try a concept that looks like it has potential. There's an open-source sound editor called Audacity that accepts VST plug-ins. Then there's a VST plug-in by Anwidasoft that provides a 31-band EQ. Don't know if it's one or two channels, but even if it's only one-channel and it works, it's enough of a proof of concept for me.

Now, I'm still learning about the various front-ends out there (personally, I'm running FrodoPlayer). My question is this: Is it possible to send the output from our front-end into a VST-equipped sound-editor and then out to our soundcard? If this isn't possible, I'll drop it and look for something else. If it's possible, I'll start working on installing and configuring this stuff this week.

scott_fx · 03-31-2006, 09:56 PM

i agree, we are getting a bit off topic...not sure how we steered toward a complete package thing... actually i know the turning point

so what i said was b.s.

I do however think that part of what you're trying to accomplish requires the correct hardware to make this a viable solution to cutting out the alpine pxa's out of the equation. If you feel that this isn't nec. then let me know and i can start a 'sister thread' that is soley for the hardware side and we can keep this thread purely software.

back to your question... i have no idea, we should probably post these questions in the appropriate front end forums and see if the authors can shed some light on the subject.

we need to put some pressure on the authors to incorperate vst plugin support in there front ends. I currently asked david if he plans on doing it in centrafuse but noone else has voiced interest in this. so if anyone is reading this please post a comment on this thread:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/centrafuse/73224-vst-plug-support.html

also...if we could get someone to write a universal plug-in..that would probably be best.

I also really like the anwida approach if it is possible.