Subless audio?

rsd212 · 05-18-2006, 10:37 PM

Im driving a Mazda 3 and the stock speakers just arent cutting it. Im currently using an XM roady and my MII with mobo sound (which doesnt help), but I just dont get any decent sound. I want to ditch the HU and get an amp with some speakers, but I need to know...can you still get goodsound without a sub? Are there other solutions to moving the bass out of your door speakers that dont involve a big freakin box in my trunk? I want to preserve 100% of my trunk space here, but dont want all my songs to sound like mush...

Jahntassa · 05-18-2006, 11:22 PM

You can get 'decent' sound out of a good set of aftermarket speakers, a decent headunit, and a good amplifier. But you probably won't be able to perfectly replace a subwoofer with it. I've seen I think a Clarion small box sub that you could probably stick somewhere. The 'woox' maybe?

naix · 05-18-2006, 11:24 PM

hey,, depends on your prefrences of big bass.... u want alot go with a sub.... and what speakers do you have.. i was thinking about getting a sub but i just changed my stock speakers to some polks... and it sounded fine to me.. Although i have 2 6x9's... and thats what gives me the decent bass.. if im correct mazda3's have 6 1/2's all the way around.. so eh.. sub it up..

Sidewalksalvage · 05-18-2006, 11:35 PM

If you are looking for bone rattling bass....there will be no speakers that will cut it. That said. If you get nice speakers, especially composites. The woofer with a Hz cut off at say 500 and then the a mid range smaller speaker for 500 to say 1000Hz and then toping it off with a nice tweeter for the rest (these are estimated Hz ranges, best to check it out in more detail...but for the sake of argument) This would creat a nice sound stage. See the woofer will handle only a bit more than the a sub would and therefore give you clean bass.

scott_fx · 05-18-2006, 11:41 PM

you could try some elemental design eu700's in an infinate baffle setup in the rear. feed each of the 150 wrms and you should have some nice bass

chuyler1 · 05-19-2006, 02:58 PM

Is it a Mazda3 hatch or sedan? Both models have 5x7s in each door but you can also fit 6.5" speakers by using a custom baffle. I'm not sure whether the sedan has openings in the rear deck for speakers since I don't own one. If there are openings I'm going to guess that they are for 5x7 speakers.

When planning an IB (infinite baffle, ie no enclosure) install you want to choose the largest woofer that will fit. The EU-700s are nice little subs but you'd need two of them just to equal the output of a single 8". Its all about cone area. Forget that the openings are only 5x7. Scott Buwalda piped 3 12"s through his 6x9 holes and managed to get a flat RTA response down to 20Hz. So if you can physically mount 10"s under the rear deck...do it! Also make sure you add adequate sound dampening material to the rear deck such as RAAMmat (www.raammat.com).

However, maybe you should focus on getting more power to your front speakers and upgrading to a nice set of separates (aka components). You'd be surprised how much bass some new speakers can put out compared to stock.

If you have the hatch model...this is one way to get some bass into your car without taking up additional space:
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=33566.0

scott_fx · 05-19-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chuyler1

The EU-700s are nice little subs but you'd need two of them just to equal the output of a single 8". Its all about cone area.

actually they (two) are supposed to have the output of a single 10"

chuyler1 · 05-19-2006, 04:41 PM

cone area of a EU-700 (6.5" woofer w/ 3/4" surround) = 20cuin x 2 = 40cuin
cone area of a ID8 (8" woofer w/ 1/2" surround) = 38.5cuin
cone area of a ID10 (10" woofer w/ 1/2" surround) = 63cuin

I was considering the EU-700s for an IB install in my Dad's truck but after getting past the hype they seem to be more a novelty than a practical solution. Sure you can install them in a stock 6.5" door location but you need to spend upwards of $100 in sound deadening material to get them to sound decent and still they won't be as loud as a single 8" in a sealed enclosure. They also have a fairly deep mounting depth requirement. Not as much as an 8" but still more than the average door has room for.

scott_fx · 05-19-2006, 04:54 PM

i stand corrected, never did the math...actually still didnt do the math...dont really care much either

here is an insteresting read on it though:
http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthre...ghlight=eu-700

chuyler1 · 05-19-2006, 05:30 PM

He's got 4 in a fairly large ported box. That's a far cry from 2 in an IB setup. Now if you are shooting for SPL then I'm sure the EU-700 can hold its own for what its worth. But when you are talking about SQ you need something that can efficiently play below 30Hz.

rsd212 · 05-23-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chuyler1

Is it a Mazda3 hatch or sedan? Both models have 5x7s in each door but you can also fit 6.5" speakers by using a custom baffle.

When planning an IB (infinite baffle, ie no enclosure) install you want to choose the largest woofer that will fit.

I have the sedan. I had forgotten about the Mazda3 forums, so I'll probably head over there to look at installs, but I remember the forum being rather clueless last time I checked in.

At risk of getting hit with search or google, how does IB usually work? I assume you want to use your whole trunk as the 'enclosure', so how/where do they mount? Most sub boxes I've seen are just tossed into the trunk, but dont I want some kind of baffle going into the cab?

jizzajam · 05-23-2006, 03:47 PM

you can fit a ton of speaker in your door as long as you're willing to do come hacking.
heres what I did

lots of deadening, sounds great. still have a sub tho :q

chuyler1 · 05-23-2006, 04:23 PM

IB: Basically you find a way to separate the front of the subwoofer from the rear of the subwoofer by using the trunk as an enclosure. You can mount the subs under the rear deck and use existing holes to get the bass into the cabin. You can also use the cargo pass-through hole by carefully creating a baffle that spans the entire opening and seals off the front of the subs so they are forced to push air through the rear seat.

Sidewalksalvage · 05-23-2006, 04:58 PM

Best case would be to mount them on the deck, again biggest ones you can find (but dont jip out on quality, ive found that smaller, better quality ones are better than huge cheap ones...) This way your trunk is the enclosure. Definatly look into sound deading material like dynamat to line the trunk, this way the most sound goes into the cabin rather than out the trunk...

Mandos · 05-23-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chuyler1

cone area of a EU-700 (6.5" woofer w/ 3/4" surround) = 20cuin x 2 = 40cuin
cone area of a ID8 (8" woofer w/ 1/2" surround) = 38.5cuin
cone area of a ID10 (10" woofer w/ 1/2" surround) = 63cuin

I was considering the EU-700s for an IB install in my Dad's truck but after getting past the hype they seem to be more a novelty than a practical solution. Sure you can install them in a stock 6.5" door location but you need to spend upwards of $100 in sound deadening material to get them to sound decent and still they won't be as loud as a single 8" in a sealed enclosure. They also have a fairly deep mounting depth requirement. Not as much as an 8" but still more than the average door has room for.

Actually...official spec on sd for the 700's is 17.75 in²

2 700's have just slightly less air movement than a single 8...but to almost anyone would sound identical.

They are a practical solution for people that have odd space requirements....and they really do sound good. Granted, a single one ported makes for a HUGE box that defeats the purpose of a tiny sub, but it sounds awesome.

As for in a door, yeah, totally impractical. That said, I'm doing it eventually, just need to get the 32 in the hatch first. My doors are already prepped for it and can fit them, only modification was extra deep spacer and cutting the trim ring off the back of the plastic panel.

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