CF Graphics and other applications, copyright question

Lum · 07-02-2006, 11:07 AM

Not sure if this should go in here or the Skins forum, but since I'm not actually making a CF skin, I figure here is best.

Put simply, What is FluxMedia's stance on people copying CFs Onyn WS look and feel for their own (skinnable) applications and plugins (possibly to the extent of extracting the PNGs and changing the text on them etc.)

I ask because presumably if someone is developing a CF plugin then providing it with an Onyx WS skin is the obvious thing to do so that it looks like part of CF. I'm sure David wouldn't have a problem with people doing this.

but what if I make an app that's designed to just be embedded into any front end. Somthing that I plan to do because I can't get my head around .net and the CF SDK and also because my apps will likely be for relatively obscure purposes that only certain people will want, and I don't want to tie them into a specific front end or operating system.

I use CF and I'll be wanting an Onys WS skin for my app. I really can't be bothered to make an alternative skin, so if someone chooses to use my app with Mobile Impact then they can make there own MI-like skin.

But the fact remains that I'll have ripped off David's copyrighted work and distributed it with my own software that may not end up being used with CF.

So ...

... can I distribute my app with an Onyx WS skin
... can I make an Onyx WS skin for it and post it separately, perhaps only in the Skins subforum
... can I make an Onyx WS skin, but have it use some PNG files directly from the Centrafuse folder rather than bundling them with the app
... or can I not make an Onyx WS skin at all?

justintime · 07-02-2006, 12:03 PM

All excellent questions! I want to know too... ! David?

veetid · 07-03-2006, 12:57 PM

There is no problem using the look and feel of the current Centrafuse skin for CF plugins being written. A PSD with sample backgrounds, headers, and buttons is most likely going to be added to the SDK download to make it easier...

This is so Centrafuse plugins can fully integrate seemlessly into the current version.

They should not be used for stand alone applications.

david

justintime · 07-03-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by veetid

They should not be used for stand alone applications.

david

Too bad. This is going to have the following effect:

People developing general purpose apps for carputer frontends will not create a skin to match CF. They are not allowed. So they will effectively considfer CF out of the scope of their frontend testing. hence, it might not even work correctly in CF (not to mention will look awful if no CF skin is provided).

I for one love the idea of having CF plugins, and prefer them over generic apps, but I fully understand and support this community's developers position, when they decide that they will put time and effort against a piece of software that everyone can enjoy, and create a frontend-agnostic application.

Lastly, I don't really understand what FluxMedia fears about an app distributed with a CF-like skin. Its not like someone will use RR and integrate a CF skin within their app. That would make no sense, and here again would look awful.

This can only benefit the CF community.

tj!2k4 · 07-03-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by justintime

Its not like someone will use RR and integrate a CF skin within their app.

Why not? The RR community is already "borrowing" graphics from CF skins..

veetid · 07-03-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tj!2k4

Why not? The RR community is already "borrowing" graphics from CF skins..

Exactly and without permission... If things like this would not have happened and people would have asked permission, then our stance might be different...

All the graphics are trademarked and some even registered trademarks, not to mention multiple copyrights with some features patent pending...

Most plugins up to this point, Mappoint, Calc, and others, asked permission before using our graphics, but again we don't really have a problem when it is a CF plugin...

We look at external applications as temporary unproffesional solution that is in place simply since their is not currently a plugin for everything yet...

david

justintime · 07-03-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tj!2k4

Why not? The RR community is already "borrowing" graphics from CF skins..

And THAT is something that needs to be addressed. Using a CF skin for another frontend's main layout is a no no, but that is different....

veetid · 07-03-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by justintime

And THAT is something that needs to be addressed. Using a CF skin for another frontend's main layout is a no no, but that is different....

I'm not saying it will never be allowed, but permission must be asked, case by case... As for writing a CFPlugin you will simply just be able too...

david

justintime · 07-03-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by veetid

We look at external applications as temporary unproffesional solution that is in place simply since their is not currently a plugin for everything yet...

Wow... you see that as unprofessional? I hope you're kidding David! It might not be the 'best way' to integrate an app, but to consider it an unprofessional approach?

With this stance, I can see a new breed of CF-haters starting to rise. I'm not amongst them of course. I do hate to think that by adopting CF as my frontend, I will feel isolated from all the other goodies out there.

I was an avid Apple user for almost 20 years, and this exact attitude was what drew me away from that platform a few years ago... I was in fact an active MacOS Classic / Macos X developer back then, but I had enough of it!

veetid · 07-03-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by justintime

Wow... you see that as unprofessional? I hope you're kidding David! It might not be the 'best way' to integrate an app, but to consider it an unprofessional approach?

With this stance, I can see a new breed of CF-haters starting to rise. I'm not amongst them of course. I do hate to think that by adopting CF as my frontend, I will feel isolated from all the other goodies out there.

I was an avid Apple user for almost 20 years, and this exact attitude was what drew me away from that platform a few years ago... I was in fact an active MacOS Classic / Macos X developer back then, but I had enough of it!

People can do it all day long, end users working with the Retail version... I'm just saying from a distributor standpoint it is, very much so, considered unprofessional... Any distributor needing custom functionality will have a CF plugin designed and built for them before they pre-install and integrate on hardware they sell...

Now some external applications that are designed to look like Centrafuse and our touch-screen friendly, those are not that bad... I am mainly speaking of embedding external windows applications that require mice and keyboards...

david

Lum · 07-03-2006, 03:43 PM

How about a half-way there solution.

I am never going to make my apps as CF Plugins. The chances of someone needing an app to do Subaru Select Monitor ECU logging/gauges AND running CentraFuse is so slim it just isn't worth it. I can't afford Visual Studio, I am a python programmer and I aim for my apps to run on Linux and Max as well as Windows, so the CF/.net SDK is not appropriate.

I will not distribute my application with a CF-like skin. You have made it very clear that you do not want this.

3rd parties have already created CF-like skins for other apps. I have the Onyx WS skin for Mobile Emulator already, downloaded from this very skins subforum. I personally don't see a problem with this as it would look dumb to use this skin in conjunction with, say, the default RoadRunner look.

I do see your problem with people copying CFs look in a skin for RoadRunner or another front end and would fully support any action you take to stop this.

So, how about creating a skins section, available to registered users only, on centrafuse.com that creators of CF-like skins for external apps can post their creations too? That keeps the CF look and feel restricted to CentraFuse users and also provides some benefit to registering rather than pirating.

In the meantime if I make a CF-like skin for my own app and keep it for my own private use, is that ok?

justintime · 07-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lum

In the meantime if I make a CF-like skin for my own app and keep it for my own private use, is that ok?

I can't see how this would be a problem!!!

veetid · 07-03-2006, 05:58 PM

might work...

we will figure something out...

david

Lum · 07-07-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by veetid

Now some external applications that are designed to look like Centrafuse and our touch-screen friendly, those are not that bad... I am mainly speaking of embedding external windows applications that require mice and keyboards...

Just spotted this point, and it's exactly what I am intending to write. Car PC software that is intended to be embedded in a front end application.

Since I'm testing in CF, I'm not even going to provide a close button. CF provides one for me.

The app in question is my Subaru gauges project that I havent gotten any further with as of yet. (I have the OpenGL graphics sort of working, and an ECU comms program, that's about it)

coucouillu · 07-08-2006, 03:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lum

The app in question is my Subaru gauges project that I havent gotten any further with as of yet. (I have the OpenGL graphics sort of working, and an ECU comms program, that's about it)

Hi Lum,

Have you wrote an thread on it?