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Old 11-03-2005, 10:26 AM   #31
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No punching in your mileage - are you kidding? GPS! We all have it! Most of us already use export to split it up onto numerous ports. I say complete integration. GPS and OBD2 are standards, they work, and they work very well! your obd2 data will give you absolute fuel flow rate, so the program could have a fuel consumption needle like in bmws. You just use the injector pulse width, number of injectors, and flow rate of injectors (which is all easy to obtain), compare that to the gps-indicated mileage, and you have on-the-fly fuel consumption rates. The program could alert you of engine trouble codes as well, as it should!

Think about it, we need to replicate and surpass the OEM offerings. We already have the data flowing into our pcs, we just have to show it the right way!

Argh projects like this make me wish I was a programmer instead of an installer....
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:51 PM   #32
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I really don't want to hijack JIT's thread with my thoughts, but since RoyN asked, I'll post it here. I've already mentioned some of this, but let me start from the beginning.

Again, let me begin by stressing the following:

I know OBD would be the proper way to go about measuring all values required for precision, but short of purchasing another $100 in hardware, I think the GPS can come reasonably close to providing similar functionality for this application.

Furthermore, I don't think this application should be limited to those who want to do everything manually, or those who want to use GPS, but should of course support the OBD hardware for those who have it, but as stated, it would be nice to gain additional functionality without additional expense

My thoughts here are meant to compliment the type of vehicle maintenance application that Justintime is talking about, and not replace it.


Ok, so here are a couple of things I've been thinking about which incorporate data provided by the GPS:

- automatic reminders of upcoming vehicle service
- *estimated* fuel/miles remaining for current tank
- *estimated* distance traveled since last fill-up
- virtual speedometer
- virtual odometer
- multiple trip odometers (e.g. measuring 1/4 mile stretch of road should be a bit more precise using GPS.. ahem)


I think the best way to address some of the issues is in Q&A form:

Q: How can it calculate my MPG per tank?
A: When you first initialize the application, you need to start with a full tank of gas, and enter the tank size into the application. Every time you fill up thereafter and enter the amount of fuel you refilled and the mileage from the odometer, it will calculate the MPG based on the distance travelled and fuel consumed. This will also reconcile mileage differences between vehicle odometer and GPS data.

Q: How can it calculate my current MPG?
A: Without OBD hardware it can't precisely calculate your current MPG since this is calculated from values read from the MAF and O2 sensors, etc; however, I think should be able to make a reasonable estimate based on previous MPG tank and speed averages. Of course rapid acceleration and deceleration play a major role in this as well, and should be able to be acommodated in calculations by an acceleration/deceleration factor based on the data received by the GPS.

Q: "What happens if I go through a tunnel and lose GPS signal?"
A: The software calculates the time and distance between when it lost the signal, and when it got it back. Based on the elapsed time it should be able to calculate how fast you were travelling

Q: "I sometimes drive short distances with the PC turned off,"
A: Try not to do this. But seriously, how many miles are we talking about here? I don't think this is necessarily that big of a concern because it will be reconciled when you enter your fuel and mileage data at the next fill-up, or a manual mileage reconciliation. Manually entered data will always override GPS-generated data.

Q: The GPS data is just not accurate enough and I don't want to use it.
A: Turn off GPS measurements by unchecking the "Use GPS data" box.
(optimally, you can also select what functions you want the GPS to perform)



Example maintenance reminder popup:

Quote:
Upcoming Maintenance required at 35,850 Miles
(approximately 500 miles remaining):
Service required:
- Oil Change
- Transmission Fluid Change
- Tire Rotation
Contact J&J Service at (555) 555-5555 to schedule.


[Snooze] [Enter Service Details] [Cancel Reminder]

In this "example":
a) service notification can be based on mileage, mileage interval, or time period,
b) service items display is configurable, and
c) service provider and telephone# are all configurable within the application.
d) "snooze" period is configurable to whatever mileage or time period the user wishes

So like I said, those are just a few of my thoughts with regard to GPS integration..

Last edited by tj!2k4 : 11-03-2005 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:00 PM   #33
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I do see your point, and I think offering all three solutions (manual, GPS, OBD) would be the optimal way to go about it. I have never programmed with GPS before, but from what I have read, the NEMA data is very easy to understand. My only concern is actually how to get the data from the GPS unit to begin with, but I have some sample code I found on the net to get me started with that.

As for OBD integration, its not something I have setup, and wasn't planning to get it setup initially, so it can be added in a later version.

Acceleration/deceleration factor is going to be difficult to get right I would imagine, it's a lot of guesswork if you ask me. But reconciliation from manual entry will set the figures right again I guess. OBDII on the other hand will have all that data (distance travelled, speed, etc) so would I be right in saying manual reconciliation would not be required? Had a quick look on google, but does anyone know exactly what data OBDII outputs other than trouble codes?
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:27 PM   #34
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OK, all good valuable feedback from folks in the thread.

Let me just stating the following:

1) OBD and GPS are standards, yeah... not everyone has an OBD capable vehicle, and those that do, don't always (or rarely?) have the OBD hardware and connectors. I would venture to say that at most 10% of the carputers have OBD hardware setup in this forum? Perhaps a lot lower than that.

2) GPS: Nice, but would be strongly dependent on it being active. And having signal. Etc etc.

3) Finger: Everyone who drives has one. Enough said!

Oh, and as far as accuracy for mpg calculation. Not sure what you guys are smoking. If you know the gallons you pured, and the exact miles you travelled, you have an exact MPG calculation. Why is this getting overly complicated all of a sudden?! <sigh>
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:36 PM   #35
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Quote: Originally Posted by justintime
Oh, and as far as accuracy for mpg calculation. Not sure what you guys are smoking. If you know the gallons you pured, and the exact miles you travelled, you have an exact MPG calculation. Why is this getting overly complicated all of a sudden?! <sigh>

Yes, if you enter it manually, correct.

In my post, the assumption is that the GPS data is being used for the calculations.

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Old 11-03-2005, 05:38 PM   #36
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jarrod
OBDII on the other hand will have all that data (distance travelled, speed, etc) so would I be right in saying manual reconciliation would not be required?

Correct

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarrod
Had a quick look on google, but does anyone know exactly what data OBDII outputs other than trouble codes?

Dunno, sorry..
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:21 PM   #37
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Quote: Originally Posted by justintime
I would venture to say that at most 10% of the carputers have OBD hardware setup in this forum? Perhaps a lot lower than that.

Yeah, but OBDII would be way more accurate than GPS and way less work than manual input.

The only reason I don't have it is cause I have no need for it.. an app like this would create need, and I'd buy one in a second. Make the app and sell it to an OBD II seller, like digimoto.

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Old 11-03-2005, 08:30 PM   #38
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Let's keep this as simple and effective as we can guys. Everyone stated that GPS and OBD pluggins would be nicer, but then again I guess more difficult to create.
Justintime's initial ideea to manually enter the data was the simpliest and best way and I think the easiest way to create.
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:45 PM   #39
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Quote: Originally Posted by Cris
Justintime's initial ideea to manually enter the data was the simpliest and best way and I think the easiest way to create.

Sounds like notepad with a nicer gui.

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Old 11-03-2005, 08:46 PM   #40
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Cris: I agree. Lets start off with manual input, then we can add other features like OBD and GPS at a later stage once everything else is complete.
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:14 PM   #41
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Quote: Originally Posted by arebelspy
Sounds like notepad with a nicer gui.

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Well, that's like saying Excel is like Word with a nicer interface.

Try the KarKare app I mentioned in my first post, and see how the app works.
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:36 PM   #42
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Quote: Originally Posted by justintime
Well, that's like saying Excel is like Word with a nicer interface.

Try the KarKare app I mentioned in my first post, and see how the app works.

Word is like Notepad with a nicer interface..
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:46 PM   #43
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CF is like RR, but with a nicer GUI. ROTF
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Old 11-04-2005, 03:15 AM   #44
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Without reading the whole thread, just wanted to post this:

I started writing an application like this a while ago, but lost interest..
Maybe I should start it up again..

Although I only planed to have it for gasmileage,
other things could just as easily be added..

As the program is now, it has a tabbed interface with:
* bar graphs
* list of fill-ups and mpg
* statistics tab with total gas filled, distance driven, total gas cost and so on..
* everything saves into an xml file for easy reading
* settings page so you can setup if you want it to calculate mpg or liters/10km

The program is written in VB.NET for you who wish to know..

Attached is a picture of the program showing a bargraph of liters/10km used
which is the way most swedes want it..

Cheers
/p
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:45 PM   #45
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In case anyone is still interested in the initial 'concept', I drafted a specification document for Jarrod today, and also made a quick mockup of the main screen. Let's see how this progresses.
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