NiteMaxx digital night vision camera - Page 24

shotgunefx · 04-28-2006, 02:44 PM

One other question Mark.

It says that in the datasheet that the RGB IN pins need to be AC coupled and it looks like the ground is tied to GND2.

Think that's what GNDS on the connector is tied to?

NiteMax Mark · 04-28-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

One other question Mark.

It says that in the datasheet that the RGB IN pins need to be AC coupled and it looks like the ground is tied to GND2.

Think that's what GNDS on the connector is tied to?

You're looking at the datasheet for the Sharp chip. You'll find that the LCD Controller Board has been designed to conform to the chip's requirements. For example, the RGB inputs ARE cap coupled on the board already.

I haven't sorted out which is which, but the grounds on the board are segregated to help minimize noise from supplies reaching the video circuitry. For practicle purposes, the grounds are all the same. If you want to be technical, there are different grounds that depend on the nature of the return currents that are expected to flow through them. I haven't studied the board closely enough to give you an intellignet explination of which specific ground pins you should use.

If we start seeing noise problems, we might need to re-arrange the grounds.

shotgunefx · 04-28-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiteMax Mark

You're looking at the datasheet for the Sharp chip. You'll find that the LCD Controller Board has been designed to conform to the chip's requirements. For example, the RGB inputs ARE cap coupled on the board already.

I haven't sorted out which is which, but the grounds on the board are segregated to help minimize noise from supplies reaching the video circuitry. For practicle purposes, the grounds are all the same. If you want to be technical, there are different grounds that depend on the nature of the return currents that are expected to flow through them. I haven't studied the board closely enough to give you an intellignet explination of which specific ground pins you should use.

If we start seeing noise problems, we might need to re-arrange the grounds.

Hi Mark,
Here's what I'm not clear on. If there is no common ground between the video card and the monitor, how can it work?

One other thing that's stumping me. I was playing with my DMM and noticed something odd. None of the feature connectors seem to have any connection to the ground of the composite input when unpowered ...

..unless you hold the GAIN button.
4, 10, 11 (and some others) have values in the double digit kohms. Release the gain button and nothing.

NiteMax Mark · 04-28-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Hi Mark,
Here's what I'm not clear on. If there is no common ground between the video card and the monitor, how can it work?

One other thing that's stumping me. I was playing with my DMM and noticed something odd. None of the feature connectors seem to have any connection to the ground of the composite input when unpowered ...

..unless you hold the GAIN button.
4, 10, 11 (and some others) have values in the double digit kohms. Release the gain button and nothing.

Something sounds wrong -- I agree there should be a common connection.

What is the configuration of the circuit you're looking at? Is it a complete camera in original condition, or an incomplete one? I recall that the original NiteMax had som funny-business going on with the grounds. There was something confusing about how they connected everything that made me say "that's stupid". If this is a NiteMax without a Power Supply Board, there's going to be an interruption in the Ground Circuit that isn't real obvious unless you look real hard -- as I recall. (Something about a ground connection that was passed through the power supply board for no good reason instead of a more logically direct connection.)

I'll look when I get home tonight. I'm thinking there's a ground connection you're missing. I'll see if I can make enough sense of it to explain it later!

shotgunefx · 04-28-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiteMax Mark

Something sounds wrong -- I agree there should be a common connection.

What is the configuration of the circuit you're looking at? Is it a complete camera in original condition, or an incomplete one? I recall that the original NiteMax had som funny-business going on with the grounds. There was something confusing about how they connected everything that made me say "that's stupid". If this is a NiteMax without a Power Supply Board, there's going to be an interruption in the Ground Circuit that isn't real obvious unless you look real hard -- as I recall. (Something about a ground connection that was passed through the power supply board for no good reason instead of a more logically direct connection.)

I'll look when I get home tonight. I'm thinking there's a ground connection you're missing. I'll see if I can make enough sense of it to explain it later!

It's one of the original complete nitemaxes. Actually, tried it on another with the same result. Only change since I bought them was unplugging the camera boards.

I almost got a signal with just one wire, but only after connecting the vga's ground to pin 12. GNDS.

Though I'm having a real hard time trying to play with this. The damn VGA wires keep falling out of JP1. Any suggestions? I'll have to see if I can find molex header stuff that small.

NiteMax Mark · 04-28-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

It's one of the original complete nitemaxes. Actually, tried it on another with the same result. Only change since I bought them was unplugging the camera boards.

I almost got a signal with just one wire, but only after connecting the vga's ground to pin 12. GNDS.

Though I'm having a real hard time trying to play with this. The damn VGA wires keep falling out of JP1. Any suggestions? I'll have to see if I can find molex header stuff that small.

Okay, here's the scoop...

I measure continuity between all of the grounds on the LCD Controller -- it shouldn't matter which one we're talking about. GND is connected between the RCA Jack and the LCD Controller by a short black wire between the "GND" pad near JP-1 and the Gain/Zoom/IR/LCD switches behind. Here't the goofy part... GND is connected to the rest of the NiteMax through JP-1. If you have JP-1 unplugged, you've disconnected the Power Supply and CCD's GND connection to the RCA Jack. In other words, the GND connection between the LCD half of the NiteMax and the front half all happen through JP-1. (The power and video signals take a different path and don't rely on JP1.)

Based on your description, I almost wonder if your's is wired wrong. It doesn't explain how it worked when I tested it but stranger things have happened!

shotgunefx · 04-28-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiteMax Mark

Okay, here's the scoop...

I measure continuity between all of the grounds on the LCD Controller -- it shouldn't matter which one we're talking about. GND is connected between the RCA Jack and the LCD Controller by a short black wire between the "GND" pad near JP-1 and the Gain/Zoom/IR/LCD switches behind. Here't the goofy part... GND is connected to the rest of the NiteMax through JP-1. If you have JP-1 unplugged, you've disconnected the Power Supply and CCD's GND connection to the RCA Jack. In other words, the GND connection between the LCD half of the NiteMax and the front half all happen through JP-1. (The power and video signals take a different path and don't rely on JP1.)

Based on your description, I almost wonder if your's is wired wrong. It doesn't explain how it worked when I tested it but stranger things have happened!

Hi Mark, I'll have to twiddle a bit more later, but this is the case on two functional nitemaxes.

With the previous VGA tests, where did he hook up the hsync? He wrote the composite sync, but not sure what he's refering to.

So far I get a bunch of junk just rolling every which way, though I haven't played much with powerstrip yet. I tried and it hung my computer when I enabled the second monitor.

Thanks,
-Lee

NiteMax Mark · 04-28-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Hi Mark, I'll have to twiddle a bit more later, but this is the case on two functional nitemaxes.

With the previous VGA tests, where did he hook up the hsync? He wrote the composite sync, but not sure what he's refering to.

So far I get a bunch of junk just rolling every which way, though I haven't played much with powerstrip yet. I tried and it hung my computer when I enabled the second monitor.

Thanks,
-Lee

Among the things that need to be correct for the VGA to work using the RGB inputs, the sync polarity needs to be correct and the resolution is important. You'll need to use 640x480 resolution or maybe less if you can. I think that stuffing HSYNC into the Composite Video Input is the place to start. Eventually, VSYNC will need to be combined with HSYNC to create a composite sync signal -- or the secret to VSYNC will need to be solved.

shotgunefx · 04-29-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiteMax Mark

Among the things that need to be correct for the VGA to work using the RGB inputs, the sync polarity needs to be correct and the resolution is important. You'll need to use 640x480 resolution or maybe less if you can. I think that stuffing HSYNC into the Composite Video Input is the place to start. Eventually, VSYNC will need to be combined with HSYNC to create a composite sync signal -- or the secret to VSYNC will need to be solved.

Cool, that what I thought. It didn't quite work, but it changed the screen.

Having some trouble with powerstrip though. As soon as I enabled multiple monitors it killed windows, then it would boot into the secondary controller which gave me a blank screen, I was able to fix that by swapping cables. No biggie, just a PITA, it remind me of compiling things on a 386. Start, make a change, crash, reboot.

shotgunefx · 04-29-2006, 10:15 AM

Did some more playing...

The screen is pretty much exclusively green. Maybe R+B aren't making a good connection, but I dunno. No amount of giggling the wires has any effect. You'd think if that were the case, there would be at least some effect when moving the wires, but there's not.

I hooked the hsync to composite input and VGA ground to GNDS.

I'm mostly having horizontal problems, vertical is more often than not stable no matter how I tweak it. Horizontally, I get shear, the only time I don't, the screen is tiled over and over. How many times depends on the frequency.

Without this connection to GNDS, it just rolls and rolls on the vertical axis. Maybe that's something for Fusion to try as he's already close.

Anyone have some suggested timings to try?

NiteMax Mark · 04-29-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Did some more playing...

The screen is pretty much exclusively green. Maybe R+B aren't making a good connection, but I dunno. No amount of giggling the wires has any effect. You'd think if that were the case, there would be at least some effect when moving the wires, but there's not.

I hooked the hsync to composite input and VGA ground to GNDS.

I'm mostly having horizontal problems, vertical is more often than not stable no matter how I tweak it. Horizontally, I get shear, the only time I don't, the screen is tiled over and over. How many times depends on the frequency.

Without this connection to GNDS, it just rolls and rolls on the vertical axis. Maybe that's something for Fusion to try as he's already close.

Anyone have some suggested timings to try?

The video it is designed for expects 15.7kHz Horizontal and 60Hz Vertical. I expect that you'll be able to sneak in faster Horizontal by no more than 2x this amount but Vertical should stay about the same.

Genesisfactor · 04-29-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Cool, that what I thought. It didn't quite work, but it changed the screen.

Having some trouble with powerstrip though. As soon as I enabled multiple monitors it killed windows, then it would boot into the secondary controller which gave me a blank screen, I was able to fix that by swapping cables. No biggie, just a PITA, it remind me of compiling things on a 386. Start, make a change, crash, reboot.

lol....the 386 days. I miss then too...

Yeah, i'm still watching and waiting for sucess.

Now, two questions...with my ATI card, i can adjust the V/Hsync to some level (not sure which) using the software. DO you think the software would bang down the Hsync until 15hz?

Also, it crashed on dual monitor mode??? How the hell did you manage that

!!??? Hehe, no really...why would it crash a computer on dual monitor mode??? Better yet, how? Mine just displays "out of scan range" or has a jacked up screen...

Can't wait for more updates. I'm just playing around with my goodies for now

NiteMax Mark · 04-29-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

lol....the 386 days. I miss then too...

Yeah, i'm still watching and waiting for sucess.

Now, two questions...with my ATI card, i can adjust the V/Hsync to some level (not sure which) using the software. DO you think the software would bang down the Hsync until 15hz?

Also, it crashed on dual monitor mode??? How the hell did you manage that

!!??? Hehe, no really...why would it crash a computer on dual monitor mode??? Better yet, how? Mine just displays "out of scan range" or has a jacked up screen...

Can't wait for more updates. I'm just playing around with my goodies for now

I think it might go down to 15 kilo-Hertz. I would try to get below 30 kilo-Hertz for sure. 15 Hertz might be very bad!

The composite sync input is more like negative sync polarity if you can select that.

shotgunefx · 04-29-2006, 10:05 PM

Genesisfactor
It hung with the displays ****ed up. Then it someone decided my monitor defaulted to 2048x14'something evem though DDE reports it correctly, then it saved them in the registry somehow and I couldn't boot into anything but safe mode. Uninstalled powerstrip, same thing. Did a system restore, again nothing. Then reinstalled powerstrip and it fixed it.

I don't care for the UI too much. I find it non-intuitive.

Mark
I got a DSUB-15 at radioshack and made a much better test setup. I can tell the screen is trying to display something, but no matter what I do, I can't get anything close to a screen now.

Usually just multicolored dots. Also, powerstrip won't let my pick 15.7hz x 60hz

It doubles the H scan to 31.8 when I enter 60hz for the vertical. I can't change one without changing the other. Something I'm missing here? Anyone with more experience with powerstrip, I'd like to hear it.

dtran01 · 05-01-2006, 06:12 PM

Mark, shall we start making payments for the lenses?

I've been waiting patiently, and just dont want to wait too long as to let everything fizzle out!

thanks again!

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