Looking for EOBD Pids?

justchat_1 · 10-25-2009, 05:08 PM

Looking for manufacturer specific PIDs (Enhanced Parameters not DTCs)....links, references,actual lists-anything would be useful.

Ford was easy-got all 1000+ Enhanced PIDs

Now I need info on GM, Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Honda.

P.S. - This all goes to the openOBD project so every manufacturer we complete is $300 less that a person has to spend for OBD software. This is our chance to go from $500+ OBD to Free and Open Source.

Vitaliy · 10-26-2009, 06:29 PM

Sorry to nitpick, but... last I checked, ScanXL add-ons are only $100?

justchat_1 · 10-27-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vitaliy

Sorry to nitpick, but... last I checked, ScanXL add-ons are only $100?

$100 each plus $100 for the base software....last i checked $200-300 != Free

Vitaliy · 10-27-2009, 02:13 PM

Right, but $200 != $300, and on some websites you pay only $80 for the base software, and $80 for each add-on.

I told you I was nitpicking.

Good luck with the project!

Vitaliy

mezz64 · 10-27-2009, 03:41 PM

I hope you can source some of these. I have been looking for enhanced Honda PID's for a couple years now with no luck.

justchat_1 · 10-27-2009, 05:07 PM

I'm considering putting together a quick "EPID" dump program to see how many we could reverse engineer. Basically you start the program hit scan, then open a door press scan again...etc. And one at a time you identify a lot of the values. Other values could be guessed by running the engine and doing a 10 sec dump.

Figuring out what PID's are supported and retrieving the values are pretty easy-the tough part is figuring out what pids correspond to what values.

I have a few honda PID's from various forums but someone more active on honda forums could probably do better then me.

Enforcer · 10-27-2009, 05:45 PM

There might be legal issues with making manufacturer specific PIDs / enhanced PIDs publically available in open source programs.

I would check carefully on what each manufacturer allows.

justchat_1 · 10-27-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer

There might be legal issues with making manufacturer specific PIDs / enhanced PIDs publically available in open source programs.

I would check carefully on what each manufacturer allows.

Just because we don't charge for the program doesn't mean we don't have the same distribution rights as any other manufacturer. Info obtained from SAE documents for example can be used to populate the data as long as we paid for a copy and do not publicly distribute the information contained within.

As far as the PID's go -> anything clean room reverse engineered is public information. As long as their documents are not used they have no legal basis for any complaints.

Enforcer · 10-27-2009, 07:14 PM

Depends, reverse engineering is quite often forbidden in T&C's

Not saying you should or couldn't do it, just advising you to make 100% sure what you are doing won't attract the attentions of some over zealous and overpaid corporate litigation lawyers

malcom2073 · 10-27-2009, 07:32 PM

Do you mind sharing what you have thus far before you get shut down?

RipplingHurst · 10-27-2009, 09:47 PM

I have my car's service manual...it's huge. Is the information you want there?

chunkyks · 10-27-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Depends, reverse engineering is quite often forbidden in T&C's

Not saying you should or couldn't do it

Check to see if they link against some LGPL libraries, which explicitly allow reverse engineering :-D

Gary (-;

justchat_1 · 10-28-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer

Depends, reverse engineering is quite often forbidden in T&C's

Not saying you should or couldn't do it, just advising you to make 100% sure what you are doing won't attract the attentions of some over zealous and overpaid corporate litigation lawyers

Funny I don't remember signing any terms and conditions when i bought my (used) car

All they can copyright is the documents which define each of the pids not the definitions themselves. If that were the case i'm copyrighting the numbers 234 and want $10k everytime you use them.

This is a tried and tested principal of reverse engineering for interoperability. The same grounds used in dozens of legal cases. Notice that Microsoft's proprietary and copyright file format .doc is supported by OpenOffice? Theres hundreds of such instances-as long as DRM, copy protection or encryption are not circumvented-its legal.

Again, this is a communications protocol not proprietary software.

I have service manuals for Ford, GM, Toyota (a little outdated but still useful) and Nissan....No PID definitions are included in any of these documents to ensure a nice revenue stream for the manufacturers.

All info is already available in the weekly database releases (OM svn server). I would advise RR and CF users to pay attention to the license terms.

PPE · 10-28-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by chunkyks

Check to see if they link against some LGPL libraries, which explicitly allow reverse engineering :-D

Gary (-;

Which LGPL libraries explicitly allow this? Even if the GPL (or LGPL) allows this (I haven't read it recently), if you use LGPL licensed code in library form, the (L)GPL does not apply to the software as a whole, but only to that specific library. Is that correct?

In any case, nearly every diagnostics tool I have seen includes a EULA which must be agreed to in order for you to install and/or use the scan tool. Most of these EULA's have provisions against reverse engineering. I am no lawyer, but it seems to me if you take some company's scan tool and reverse engineer it against the terms of the EULA you agreed to, and on top of that post the information publicly, they may have some claim against you.

justchat_1 · 10-28-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by PPE

Which LGPL libraries explicitly allow this? Even if the GPL (or LGPL) allows this (I haven't read it recently), if you use LGPL licensed code in library form, the (L)GPL does not apply to the software as a whole, but only to that specific library. Is that correct?

Yes thats correct the LGPL allows this. GPL would require the entire program to be open source.

Quote: Originally Posted by PPE

In any case, nearly every diagnostics tool I have seen includes a EULA which must be agreed to in order for you to install and/or use the scan tool. Most of these EULA's have provisions against reverse engineering. I am no lawyer, but it seems to me if you take some company's scan tool and reverse engineer it against the terms of the EULA you agreed to, and on top of that post the information publicly, they may have some claim against you.

Is every scan tool manufacturer going to pop in here for some propaganda? No one is talking about reverse engineering scan tool databases. That topic was never even mentioned until your post. My suggestion was to log PID's in test vehicles and reverse engineer what PID's correspond to what values via some good old logic.

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