clay and fiberglassing - Page 3

zerosiggls · 07-06-2004, 04:37 PM

WhiteRabbit

this is basically my idea: http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/carts.jpg prob thinking about doing one for the passenger side too.i wanna make sure it contours to the pillar, and just grab it, i think that will look a lot better. i prob wont need 8x8x8, need only about 4-6 inches depth i would say, even that might be too much... thanks..

ken

WhiteRabbit · 07-06-2004, 05:02 PM

that can be a tricky one to make, right there! you are constrained in all directions but one, and that one direction needs to mould well to the rest of the dash or else it will look like poop.

if I were doing this project, I wouldnt bother to use fiberglass, except maybe part of the base. I would start with expanding foam.

I would start by masking off the entire insidearea there, a rediculous amount, like 2 feet in all directions. all the aluminum foil woudl be pressed up agasint a solid object, nothing hanging free.

I would then use a coule dozen squares of fiberglass matting to make a base to the right (as I am looking at it now) of the box you want to make. this will form about half the base that will be the monitor housing, and give you a clean edge to wrap the vinyl over. (or a place to keep the paint from chipping, whatever.) I didnt bother to line them up and make an edge, on the contrary I chose to spill out over where I planned to end my housing and build up a nice thickness where I planned the edge to be.

once cured I would remove and cut my edge out, make a smooth boundary. it only has to be a rough cut, I wouldnt file it down and make it nice or anything, My favorite tools for this job is a dremel and a big drum sander.

once finished, I would remask the area and glue this bass plate into position. its only to define a boundary to the right of the housing, I dont really need to worry about front, top, any other way. I would then mix some expanding foam (the good stuff that hardens, not the canned stuff that always remains rubbery) and jsut fill teh entire area. so my 8x8x8 box is now pressed up agasint teh windshield, agasint teh A -pillar, oversized in every direction.

now with a utility knife, I can define my shape to the right of hte housing. this will be a free surface, so I have to trim it and make it look nice. top, back, left side, and bottom all conform to the stock shape, and did it alot more easily than if I glued bits of fiberglass there for it! the face I would flatten, thats all.

now I can hollow out the face and install the monitor. this will be tricky for someone like me, I am not too experienced with the guts of monitors, Ideally I would do what you guys do, use bondo to bondo it directly to the foam, but as I understand the process, you remove the screen from the casing and just bondo the casing. you can totally bondo the case right to the foam, itll adhere plenty fine. I would use short strand fiber reinforced filler, its very strong, and you can get small tubes of it cheap. I would then go over the whole thing with a coat of sandable bondo, or glazing putty, or light bondo, its all the same stuff, to give the outside, espeially the right face of the console, a solid surface to mount to, make it a little more resistant to breaking.

now that I think about it, If I were to cut a piece of wood that my monitor would sit itn, using a rotozip I could cut it so its about 1/8th an inch large on all sides, and hte monitor just sits inside. that would be a MUCH better system. and just bondo that to the foam and run the cables up from behind and under the console. if my monitor had landscape to it, I could carve thta inot my wood piece, or bondo on top to give it a bump or two.

OKAY! now I have a console covered (mostly) with light bondo with a piece of wood grafted to the front with the cables run up under teh dash between the dash and the a-pillar into the console for monitor signal. I would then take my real thin black vinyl and go to work. I was real careful carving my foam such that I had simple compound corners, and no inside curves (cup your hand, the palm is an inside curve, the outside si an outside curve. try to stretch a rubberband along your palm, youll have problems)

I prefer non canned spray adhesive too, but my canned stuff is the kind that snots up, when I have to use it. I havent had too much luck with 3M, others have. maybe im doing something wrong. that should hold hte vinyl. I have to use a heat gun with vinyl cause I really suck at stretching it. I hate vinyl. if your job doesnt look perfect, but its *almost* creaseless, let it sit for a day, it contracts as the glue cures, so creases can iron themselves out (not big ones!)

if you are lazy like me, you carpet it. if box carpet is too tacky, like it is in my car, you can sand the thing reasonably flat, (you should have done this for vinyl anyways) spray it a chepa spray paint color that is your dash (cheap matte black for me) and put on grille cloth. its real thin so it looks pretty good.

or you can paint it. this will require days of sanding and many applications of bondo. good luck! its a *****.

but coated with the grille cloth (I would have cut the hole for the monitor much closetr to tolerance, 1/16 or less for grille cloth, 1/8 for carpet or vinyl, and 0" for paint) it will hold hte monitor in place, so you can run teh wires through, the grille cloth will hold the monitor housing in place on hte dash through friction, and the same with the monitor.

If i had problems, crazyglue could help hte monitor stay in teh housing, and velcro to keep the housing on the dash.

that is how Id do it, with the knowledge (or lack thereof) I have now. Someone here may be able to amend this method, or come up with an entirely new method thats far superior. but thats what id do.

WhiteRabbit · 07-06-2004, 05:03 PM

what I like about the foam is it would fill every nook of that section of dash, i fyou made it 4 inches deep, youd be able to see the guts through the windshield

zerosiggls · 07-06-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

what I like about the foam is it would fill every nook of that section of dash, i fyou made it 4 inches deep, youd be able to see the guts through the windshield

thanks for all the info
i was not going to leave the back of the housing open i wanted it to curve down to the windsheild so its a nice finish, my next question is what is the foam i have to use, like whats the name of it, and where can i buy it.. thanks

zerosiggls · 07-07-2004, 08:10 PM

does anybody know the name of the expanding foam " WhiteRabbit " was talking about, i want to get started ASAP, was wondering if anybody can tell me the name and the place to get it. thanks....

brandon · 07-07-2004, 08:35 PM

I have used expanding foam to make custom subwoofer boxes before. I am currently making one for my cars trunk. Here is what I did.
Went to "The UPS Store" and told them what I wanted to do.
Then they mixed up a bagfull of Instapak foam and we took it to my trunk, shoved it in the corner, and let the foam expand in the bag... took about 30 seconds. I paid the guy $20.00 for the materials and an extra $10.00 for his time.
I now have a perfect mold of the corner of mu trunk sitting at home waiting for me to fiberglass it. I'll be using 3/4" MDF for the front of it though and have to fabricate that in, will be covering it all with carpeting.
So to answer your question, Instapak is the name of the expanding foam.

WhiteRabbit · 07-08-2004, 12:01 AM

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=79&

im sure you can get it in pint cans

zerosiggls · 07-08-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=79&

im sure you can get it in pint cans

how exactly can i use this for the picture i showed you, i mean do i have to put it in a bag, and let it expand? or do i have to cover the area i am going to apply it to and put it on like paint?

does it work like the packaging foam "brandon" suggested above...? thanks...

Optikal · 07-08-2004, 02:12 PM

I've used a product like this when I used to be a shipper. You just mix the 2 liquids together, and in about 10 seconds or so they start expanding like crazy. It only takes about 30-60 seconds for it to become fully expanded. And they expand ALOT. 1-2 ounces could probably completely fill your typical sub enclosure. They become completely hard in only a few minutes. Then you can start cutting and sanding the shape you want out of it.

The Durango Kid · 07-08-2004, 04:25 PM

Just watch with using the foam around your windshield. You would be amazed at just how much this stuff will expand and how much pressure it can produce. Enough to break your windshield for sure. Good luck with your product.

WhiteRabbit · 07-08-2004, 06:27 PM

definitely listen to durango. it would be better to mix several batches and have lots of waste than to have it overexpand and break something!

or, almost as bad, for it to overexpand and spill out over the area you masked out on the dash! can you imagine that foam getting onto your carpet, your steering column, over your gauge cluster? I shudder to think about it!

as for application, you mix it in a cup, this cna get tricky to apply! so what I would do, to ensure you ahve excersized all of yrou options, is I would go to a hardware store and look for the canned stuff. when you find it, ask a guy that works there if he knows FOR SURE that its rigid. rigid is key! if not, its no good. but the can, you can aim teh nozzle right where you want the stuff to lay, and you dont have to worry about trying to pour the foam into place.

maybe park on a steep hill to ensure it doesnt run off ontop your carpet? i dunno

but DEFINITELY mask your cara off REAL well! expanding foam is no joke! Id take resin dropping on my car any day before expanding foam! (9 times out of 10)

zerosiggls · 07-08-2004, 09:00 PM

thanks for all the advice guys, i think i am going to experiment with a can foam first see if i can get the exact shape i am looking for, after that go from there, one thing, what should i cover the area with like the top of the dash so the foam wont get stuck to the dash, i was thinking like plastic covers like the kind you use to protect stuff when your painting, but what is good so it will give me the shape i want, and it will protect my dash?

WhiteRabbit · 07-09-2004, 03:10 AM

masking tape, the blue or green kind. or aluminumfoil. or both. cant ever be too protected

kefka_killer · 07-12-2004, 11:16 PM

I guess I'm a little late on this one and I guess zerosiggls is already sold on the expanding foam, but after browsing the finished projects at www.g35ipod.com , I found this sweet looking center console. The console was first made in clay, then they made a plaster mold, then they poured Smoothcast 305 liquid plastic(never heard of this stuff on the forums anyone have experience with it?) into the cast.

Spaghetti · 07-12-2004, 11:54 PM

Not keen on the way it the pod sticks out, but it's not bad. Never heard of Smoothcast but I've used liquid resin which is similar, although I'm not sure how it sticks to the sides.... You could still use fibreglass though.
Not sure why he's used all that silicon - that stuff isn't cheap! He could've just put plaster straight on to the clay, but then it'd probably disintergrated...