*NEW* USB Input/Output Board -- Fusion Brain

[h3rk]

So is this Fusion's first product? Do you guys do particle accellerators too?
Do you have further plans? If so, what direction are you enviosioning moving from here?

[greenman100]

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

i want one!

Also, how about an option to write values to a file. E.g. have the accelromoter running in the background and have it write the lowest/highest values at the end of each *variable* time preiod. The reson being so i can see what my mechanic gets up to when i leave the car there...

What u think?

The software already has the option to log and graph all analog data.

[2k1Toaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

i want one!

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

also if you cant write the last state into ram couldnt you just have a temp file to write/pull from that way even when u loose power there is something to go from. the only problrem with this is what happens if devices re-start after the car turns off/on? how will this syncronise with a temp file?

Yes it writes to a file. It is not a temporary file, it is the config file. It automatically creates a backup of the lasy good config file upon a save. That way, if the computer crashes or hard power offs, while in the write state, the backup file can be restored.

Not sure what you mean by devices restart after the car turns on/off. The PIC works like this for the most part:

a) if there is a signal from the computer within a second or so, then it believes that the computer is on. Therefore pass the values it has to the outputs.

b) if no signal is received, it assumes the computer is off, and all the outputs go low.

So when the PIC is started, it makes all the outputs low, until a signal from the computer is received which contains the info it needs. Since you can power the PIC from anything between ~7v to 18v that means you can power the board from your cars unregulated voltage on a switched line to turn off the board completely when the car is off, or you can use a constant line. Either will work, and no advantage of one over the other.

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

I've also noticed that most of the config is done via the OSK. Would it be worthwhile letting it accept keyboard input aswell. That way it will make setup quicker when configuring prior to installing into the car...

It is all done through the program, but that just writes to an ASCII based file called "UserConfig.atom". You may open it in Notepad and do whatever you please, all manually, but I must warn you now as well as the warning in the top of the config file... It is a very unforgiving file. You miss a colon ":" and the entire thing might fail at worst, or overwrite what you just did with the backup file because the one you made has errors.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND MANUALLY EDITING THIS FILE!

The entire config is meant to be really TS friendly for changing everything on the fly, and taking away the need for a keyboard. I even made my own OSK for it.

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

Also, how about an option to write values to a file. E.g. have the accelromoter running in the background and have it write the lowest/highest values at the end of each *variable* time preiod. The reson being so i can see what my mechanic gets up to when i leave the car there...

Done

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

So is this Fusion's first product? Do you guys do particle accellerators too?
Do you have further plans? If so, what direction are you enviosioning moving from here?

World domination.

[h3rk]

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

Also, how about an option to write values to a file. E.g. have the accelromoter running in the background and have it write the lowest/highest values at the end of each *variable* time preiod. The reson being so i can see what my mechanic gets up to when i leave the car there...

What u think?

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

Done

Like a datalogger?

Wow, someone could maybe make a datalogger that takes inputs from obdII and enhance it to take inputs from your module(s) as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

World domination.

Of course!

[greenman100]

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Like a datalogger?

Yes, exactly.

So technically, you could tune something on your car, go give it a full throttle run, look at the data, export it to Excel, even, and then re-tune to see if you can manage better acceleration

[SmoL]

wow these guys really have thought of everything!

[2k1Toaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by SmoL

wow these guys really have thought of everything!

We'd like to think so

[Ruffy]

Quote: Originally Posted by greenman100

What are you looking to measure?

It can be done, for about $30.

rotor temperatures, engine temps. Generally items that are alittle too hot or move too much to place a regular temp prob on

[Ruffy]

dunno if this has been answered( almost 5am here and my eyes arent working right)

But whats the input voltage? 12 or 5? Does it require regulated 12v or will the 78N05 accept a decently wide voltage range. If so whats the estimated amperage draw when in full throttle with max sensors.

need to know if my Carnetix 2140 setup has enough juice for it if it requires regulated clean 12v or 5v off the POL

[greenman100]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ruffy

dunno if this has been answered( almost 5am here and my eyes arent working right)

But whats the input voltage? 12 or 5? Does it require regulated 12v or will the 78N05 accept a decently wide voltage range. If so whats the estimated amperage draw when in full throttle with max sensors.

need to know if my Carnetix 2140 setup has enough juice for it if it requires regulated clean 12v or 5v off the POL

Regulated or unregulated 12vDC is ok

[BiGGy]

This product is great news, I want to integrate this into my next install. I have a question though that may have been answered already that ive missed.

Sensor input from stock sensors or after market? Does it link to ODB to control things like power windows and climate control? How hard is this to integrate regards to rewiring looms and having to study detailed electrical workshop manuals while at the same time getting a university degree in multimetering.

All in all is this a simple task of connecting an odb loom and configuring software or is there more to it? Can you explain these external relay boards a bit more, when are they needed? Im sorry if this has been brought up before but I dont have the time to sift read 10 forum pages. Should i have emailed this?

[greenman100]

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

This product is great news, I want to integrate this into my next install. I have a question though that may have been answered already that ive missed.

Sensor input from stock sensors or after market? Does it link to ODB to control things like power windows and climate control? How hard is this to integrate regards to rewiring looms and having to study detailed electrical workshop manuals while at the same time getting a university degree in multimetering.

All in all is this a simple task of connecting an odb loom and configuring software or is there more to it? Can you explain these external relay boards a bit more, when are they needed? Im sorry if this has been brought up before but I dont have the time to sift read 10 forum pages. Should i have emailed this?

In order to connect this to existing sensors, yes, you will need to understand electronics... Otherwise, we would have to foresee every possible sensor in every car, and figure out how to interface it. That is a task just not possible.

[h3rk]

As far as I can tell (and if at any point I'm wrong 2k1Toaster or greenman100 can correct me):

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

Im sorry if this has been brought up before but I dont have the time to sift read 10 forum pages. Should i have emailed this?

Imho, your questions may help others (like FAQ building)...but only if other people take the time to read them.

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

Sensor input from stock sensors or after market?

Either. Even detailed shop-manual schematics don't show what sensor's inputs and outputs should be. Most sensors output a voltage (resulting from voltage dropped across itself to ground), some are more of a variable current source, some output Pulse Width Modulated signals (I couldn't believe it but they exist- Air Quality sensors in Saabs do this). Some operate with 5V inputs some operate with 12V inputs. There are many kinds, and you will need some stong fundamental knowledge of electronics to fully utilize this. This is why phidgets sell their own sensors, I believe.
It would be nice for you and others if the Fusion team whipped up some example schematics, showing how connections should be made (i.e. Show how you would connect to a thermistor, Pressure detector, Accelerometer, Discrete output stuff, etc.) using a simple block diagram for the internals of the card, and more detailed on the output.

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

Does it link to ODB to control things like power windows and climate control?

Climate control maybe, automatic controls would be hard, and in no way would I replace A/C controls with this card. While this card is impressive, it doesn't work while computer is off...

OBD is serial communication, there are other components for reading OBD info into the computer. But based on that information, as obttained by ODB interface hardware, you could control many things with this card.

Maybe they could put something in the software that would make it easy to take outputs from OBD2 in the computer and affect Fusion Brains output accordingly

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

How hard is this to integrate regards to rewiring looms and having to study detailed electrical workshop manuals while at the same time getting a university degree in multimetering.

on a scale of 1 - 10, 3.07143241.

'Hard' is relative, right? For the average person, Id say it can be very useful, but as you try to control more complicated circuits, it will become more difficult. But that's ok because electronics is fun!

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

All in all is this a simple task of connecting an odb loom and configuring software or is there more to it?

No for the first part, Yes for the second part.

Quote: Originally Posted by BiGGy

Can you explain these external relay boards a bit more, when are they needed?

The discrete (On/Off) outputs from the card are outputs of electroncs that can only pass a couple hundred milliamps through them, in order to power loads larger than a small relay, you would have to use the output to turn on a small relay which connect the load to a power supply (like the battery), isolating the load's current from the card.

They chose to keep the relays seperate, to keep the module's size small. I don't think they have the relay boards ready though.

[2k1Toaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

As far as I can tell (and if at any point I'm wrong 2k1Toaster or greenman100 can correct me):

I'll try

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Imho, your questions may help others (like FAQ building)...but only if other people take the time to read them.

This is a good point and I encourage people to ask questions on the installation, or the concepts, or the interface between hardware/software because eventually we like like to get a user manual or FAQ going to help others who might need the same questioned answered. Who knows, maybe well get our own subforum if we prove worthy!

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Either. Even detailed shop-manual schematics don't show what sensor's inputs and outputs should be. Most sensors output a voltage (resulting from voltage dropped across itself to ground), some are more of a variable current source, some output Pulse Width Modulated signals (I couldn't believe it but they exist- Air Quality sensors in Saabs do this). Some operate with 5V inputs some operate with 12V inputs. There are many kinds, and you will need some stong fundamental knowledge of electronics to fully utilize this. This is why phidgets sell their own sensors, I believe.

Yes. Pretty much nailed it. There are no standards in car makes, and even between models there are pretty big differences sometimes. As of now, we have no plans to officially support any other sensors, allthough with electrical know-how anything is possible. If you can get a voltage output, scale it to the required maximum/minimum values, and determine a function that correctly models the value it reads in, then yes it is possible. As of now, there is no way to import a custom function into the program but it is a feature I am considering to allow greater flexability. But currently, not implemented, or even started upon.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

It would be nice for you and others if the Fusion team whipped up some example schematics, showing how connections should be made (i.e. Show how you would connect to a thermistor, Pressure detector, Accelerometer, Discrete output stuff, etc.) using a simple block diagram for the internals of the card, and more detailed on the output.

This will (hopefully ) be extremely easy. We have header pins labeled OUT 1 through 12 each 1x3. 1 pin is a voltage source, 1 is a ground, and the third is the sensor's voltage output.

Then the sensors have a 1x3 connector on it. So you take the connector, and plug it into the board. Voila. Done. You just have to worry about orientation on some sensors (like the accelerometer) in which case there will be a colour code which will be very easy to understand. This hasn't been fully thought through because we are not yet there, but this is how I envision it working:

If you look on one of the pictures, you will see 2 ULN2003A's and above those are 12 LED's, and above those some are the digital output headers. The colour code will be based something like "insert connector such that the red wire is closest to the indicatar led."

I sure hope there isn't any confusion when installing the sensors. Obviously after beta, we will have many more photos and connection instruction all pictorially as well. We tried to make it as simple as possible. The headers for inputs and outputs are in seperate locations. In the final version, we hope to colour code the headers themselves! So pretty much foolproof. And if you hook up a sensor backwards, well, nothing will happen. It wont work, but you wont fry anything. So flip it around and poof, it will work.

As for the software configuration, once it is attached, go to the configuration, then select Analog Inputs which is where the sensor is connected. Then if you plugged it in postition 1, select 1. Hit the First button and an OSK pops up and you can enter a name to refer to this sensor. If it were a temperature sensor, something tells me "Outside Temperature" is more to the point than "Analog 01". Then the second button will popup a screen that you can choose what type of sensor it is, then some advanced configuration options such as if you wanted to do something based on what the temperature is. That sort of thing.

Very simple, or so I hope.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

Climate control maybe, automatic controls would be hard, and in no way would I replace A/C controls with this card. While this card is impressive, it doesn't work while computer is off...

There is nothing stopping a manual override or parallel relays so that both the stock buttons and Fusion can work at the same time.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

OBD is serial communication, there are other components for reading OBD info into the computer. But based on that information, as obttained by ODB interface hardware, you could control many things with this card.

Maybe they could put something in the software that would make it easy to take outputs from OBD2 in the computer and affect Fusion Brains output accordingly

There is no plan to accept OBDII data in. There are other devices to this...

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

on a scale of 1 - 10, 3.07143241.

'Hard' is relative, right? For the average person, Id say it can be very useful, but as you try to control more complicated circuits, it will become more difficult. But that's ok because electronics is fun!

Indeed. I would rate it more of a 2.71828183 out of 10 with 1 being easiest and 10 being hardest.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

The discrete (On/Off) outputs from the card are outputs of electroncs that can only pass a couple hundred milliamps through them, in order to power loads larger than a small relay, you would have to use the output to turn on a small relay which connect the load to a power supply (like the battery), isolating the load's current from the card.

exactly. We dont want high amperage lines running by our USB data lines. That would be a mess. Also it allows more safety. If your car has an electrical short the relay will burn out and you are out 1 relay Moderatly worthy . If it was onboard, you would be out an entire Fusion.

Quote: Originally Posted by h3rk

They chose to keep the relays seperate, to keep the module's size small. I don't think they have the relay boards ready though.

Size was also an important factor. And the relay boards will be pretty much junk a pack of relays with easy connectors and a header cable. Not too much to get ready.

Any more questions, dont hesitate to ask!

-- Nick

[greenman100]

Yes, there will be a lot more documentation when the product is fully released.

I do want to clarify something though - although we have designed the Fusion to be foolproof, we are not responsible for you guys hooping things up backwards. It will be as simple to connect as a blowdryer, but we're not responsible if you do something like drop it in a bathtub.