Low power consumption 24/7 video recorder? - Page 7

tempgp · 09-10-2009, 11:38 PM

for not car related deployment we only use quads to split monitors... zoom feature is the same a digital zoom, it just zooms the bizels closer to you, camera quolity has low affect if you have low resolution.... good military cams will have no flikering at night which makes them clear... lenses play big role... i have some samle pix from diferent lenses and u see extreme diference on them... if some one needs i can find and post those pix

tempgp · 09-10-2009, 11:40 PM

boom boom lol
I do cameras for leavng =) damn how could i miss spell that word (time to get to speel....daa sleep, fingers are out of sync)

Tech9 · 11-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Hello. I also want to get a surveillance system for my car, I've been wanting it for a while, and today someone deflated one of my tires (edit: afterall, someone slashed one of my tires, but it was a small cut, so it took long to deflate), so I want to get it asap.

What I'm thinking of, would be a 4camera recording by motion sensing, even when car is not on. Motion sensing would reduce the recording time, so it would save power.
I've also been looking through ebay for a while, and today I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-Mobile-4CH-M...item5880a43af3

It can take a hard disk of up to 500gb, and has 120fps (30fps per camara). My only question is if the battery would hold up something like this.

What do you think?

Regards

tempgp · 11-10-2009, 04:36 PM

that one is in-drive simplex mobile dvr.... it is designed to record video while u drive, like in school busses and police cars. We had few of them but even didnt bother to open the box =) I think power usahe is like 40-50W + each camera eats about ~5W (numbers out of my memory you need to look at device specks) so full load 70W thats too much for battery when its off. Well you cam leave few hour but then buttery is out

Also motion detection will not save you power as in order to detect it you need to record and porocess it. it only saves space.

Thas my take on this class of DVRs

Seek · 11-10-2009, 09:07 PM

Best bet is to wire up a secondary alarm, or alarm type device, that will be used with a motion or sensitive microwave sensor to turn the recording equipment on. I'm sure one could wire in a microwave sensor that will trigger on a recording system or a pc that runs dvr software. Alarms themselves, even cheap ones, can have a trigger output to turn on other devices for a set amount of time.

There are no good recorders out-of-the-box for this. I WAS going to wire cameras up to my alarm some 5 years ago but the recording device was a big issue. The flash devices that are the most appropriate only record in horrible 10 second clips. A CarPC with decent cameras (read: NOT $20 surveillance cameras from the store) can be setup to do this all without draining the battery (have it stop if the power source drops below a certain voltage) while returning excellent quality video for actual use in court, or in the back alley...decent (imo) cameras and lenses can cost hundreds each for decent quality. Perhaps an old digital camera with a triggered shutter would be more appropriate and use less power? Expect the shutter to wear out though.

HiJackZX1 · 11-10-2009, 09:07 PM

The one listed previously is the best route to go. It uses 5V and leaves off on the last place when power is reapplied.

Seek · 11-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

The one listed previously is the best route to go. It uses 5V and leaves off on the last place when power is reapplied.

Where does it show 5v? The listing says 9v-32v and 5v would just be stupid on a system outputting 11-15v under normal circumstances. Anyways, the recorder isn't typically the problem, it's the cameras and trigger mechanism. Typical surveillance cameras are rated at 12v/500mA but that is often at full tilt with an auto iris. I have no clue what lenses with auto focusing will do. I still don't understand why cctv systems are still basically limited to 400-500 tvlines for the best price/performance while we've got 2TB hard drives and sub-$300 compact camcorders that do 1080P easily. If they were the size of a penny, it'd be fine but those type are only 200-300tvl and do horrible in low light.

I wouldn't be surprised if a low quality camera will get you the action but not an ID on a person - you can typically have one or the other. You shoot for having an up-close where people have to go so that you may pick up their details and clothing, then an area view to see who wearing what does what. When I find parts that I like, I will have wide angles in the front/rear windows for liability sake and two aiming at the side doors.

50w for the recorder is pushing it a bit - full carpc's can come in around that or lower. Dedicated recorders can draw less than 200mA at 12v, per camera. A dedicated 4 camera system may be around 30w at 12v, full load and recording to flash memory.

tempgp · 11-11-2009, 11:39 AM

security cameras are bild to suit demand of the market -- cheap way to see the motion outside the walls. ID a person by CCTV forage is quite hard, and results of such id will rarely stand in court. For ID you most of the time use dedicated close up 570TVL camera on the lkevel of the eyes facin the door. In car that is impossible as you don't know where person will come from.

HOWEVER: there are cameras called scientific that deliver outstanding quality and resolution and often high FPS (ex 60 fps). They run from $600 per camera + say 120 degree manual iris lens will cost you another $150. If you get monochrome camera you will be able to see all details but the color =)

HiJackZX1 · 11-11-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Seek

Where does it show 5v? The listing says 9v-32v and 5v would just be stupid on a system outputting 11-15v under normal circumstances. Anyways, the recorder isn't typically the problem, it's the cameras and trigger mechanism. Typical surveillance cameras are rated at 12v/500mA but that is often at full tilt with an auto iris. I have no clue what lenses with auto focusing will do. I still don't understand why cctv systems are still basically limited to 400-500 tvlines for the best price/performance while we've got 2TB hard drives and sub-$300 compact camcorders that do 1080P easily. If they were the size of a penny, it'd be fine but those type are only 200-300tvl and do horrible in low light.

I wouldn't be surprised if a low quality camera will get you the action but not an ID on a person - you can typically have one or the other. You shoot for having an up-close where people have to go so that you may pick up their details and clothing, then an area view to see who wearing what does what. When I find parts that I like, I will have wide angles in the front/rear windows for liability sake and two aiming at the side doors.

50w for the recorder is pushing it a bit - full carpc's can come in around that or lower. Dedicated recorders can draw less than 200mA at 12v, per camera. A dedicated 4 camera system may be around 30w at 12v, full load and recording to flash memory.

Here is a link to the DVR, incase we are talking about different units. http://www.gizmofocus.com/servlet/th...ini-DVR/Detail

As you can see, it says AC 5V DC for the adapter. I think its 5V @ 2 amps. The cameras are 12V @ 1 amp. U'd be surprised though, my rear cam, I can actually see into the persons front window. I can see them talking on the phone which was my #1 reason. If someone rear ends me, I have proof that the b!+ch was talking away. Now I already have my camera system in place, just no DVR yet. My rear cam is wide angle, and it gets about three car lanes of image. The side cams will also get 3 lanes also, but I am aiming them to get the side of the car also, this will help to determine where cars are in proportion to my car. The image isnt exact since we are use to seeing it magnified in mirrors. Most of you wont be watching it though, just recording. Me on the other hand, my mirrors are being replaced 100% with cameras. The

tempgp · 11-11-2009, 08:12 PM

HiJackZX1, try to remove IR filer in the cam and replace it with exposed (or unexposed) processed camera film =) You can see even through tinted windows of the other car.

HiJackZX1 · 11-11-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tempgp

HiJackZX1, try to remove IR filer in the cam and replace it with exposed (or unexposed) processed camera film =) You can see even through tinted windows of the other car.

Thats to much work for me, lol..... Im scared i'll break them, and it takes 1 month to get to me if I have to order them. I am wondering what I can do for the side mirrors. When the head lights hit them, they will blind the camera at night. Is there a way to over come this? I got around it on the rear cam by placing it high on the car. By the time the headlights are near the car, they are lower then the camera.

Seek · 11-11-2009, 10:02 PM

Wow, I so wouldn't cut a hole in the sheet metal either. Best I can do for the rear window is to mount it up high behind the window (sun glare but whatever), just under the headliner. The front is easy, right up with the mirror with the wire running up above the headliner (many of these cars have light sensors that mount both there and behind a cover in the top of the dash for auto lights/dimming).

"The one listed previously" was taken as the most recent post, the recorder located at http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-Mobile-4CH-M...item5880a43af3 . At least that one appears that it may supply the 12v for the cameras, without needing regulated power to power it.

soundman98 · 11-12-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Seek

Where does it show 5v? The listing says 9v-32v and 5v would just be stupid on a system outputting 11-15v under normal circumstances. Anyways, the recorder isn't typically the problem, it's the cameras and trigger mechanism. Typical surveillance cameras are rated at 12v/500mA but that is often at full tilt with an auto iris. I have no clue what lenses with auto focusing will do. I still don't understand why cctv systems are still basically limited to 400-500 tvlines for the best price/performance while we've got 2TB hard drives and sub-$300 compact camcorders that do 1080P easily. If they were the size of a penny, it'd be fine but those type are only 200-300tvl and do horrible in low light.

I wouldn't be surprised if a low quality camera will get you the action but not an ID on a person - you can typically have one or the other. You shoot for having an up-close where people have to go so that you may pick up their details and clothing, then an area view to see who wearing what does what. When I find parts that I like, I will have wide angles in the front/rear windows for liability sake and two aiming at the side doors.

heres the thing--high res cameras are available, but there is a cost to them-- less recording time, and you would also need a recorder that uses less compression. it is as much about what cameras you pick as what recorder you use, and how it compresses, and processes the footage.

most people that install a camera system want to go back as far as possible--for referance, a 16 input dvr using mpeg4 compression, 70% image quality(larger saved pixel area), and 320x240 resolution, 7fps and 1tb drives will net you at least 30 days recording-- to alot of businesses, anything lower than that is unacceptable

on the same system, raise the frames to 30fps, raise the quality to 100%(smaller saved pixels), and change to 640x480 res., and you can expect recording to drop down to at least 15 days-- so just a small amount of changes, and you would need 2 tb to get back near 30 days. (keep in mind that the image is still getting compressed all this time to save on recording space, at the cost of image quality)

now just imagine the amount of recording space that someone would need to get something similar to even 720 res in uncompressed format. there is a very small market for systems in that cost bracket- most would probably end up going to Vegas Casinos....(though ip cameras are quickly changing the rules...)

on a cctv forum, i read a post a while back on what type of camera it would take to get resolution shown on tv shows 'surveillance video recordings'--the color chip on the camera would be need to be near 5 feet across-- most standard cameras use 1/3" chips...

i laugh every time they 'enhance' a camera to read a licence plate that was 3,000 feet away, pointing towards the crime scene, and not looking anywhere near the building it was supposed to be monitoring...

in real life, the only way i can get a readable licence plate catpure/ or facial recognition is to put a camera over a small, narrow area that they MUST go through, and zoom the lens in where i expect them to be(usually overhead to get suspects/cars of different hights).

granted, there are cameras on the market that are designed to be dedicated for this, but most smaller companies do not want to pay that much for a camera that will only see a liscence plate/face...

sorry, i am kind of venting at what people have come to expect from cameras after watching shows like csi...

HiJackZX1 · 11-12-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Seek

Wow, I so wouldn't cut a hole in the sheet metal either. Best I can do for the rear window is to mount it up high behind the window (sun glare but whatever), just under the headliner. The front is easy, right up with the mirror with the wire running up above the headliner (many of these cars have light sensors that mount both there and behind a cover in the top of the dash for auto lights/dimming).

"The one listed previously" was taken as the most recent post, the recorder located at http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-Mobile-4CH-M...item5880a43af3 . At least that one appears that it may supply the 12v for the cameras, without needing regulated power to power it.

Thing is I plan to keep my car till I die. It will never be sold. Plus you can not even tell its there. It looks OEM. Also I did a special treatment on, it sealed it, so no water can get in. I didnt want an obvious camera that can be stolen. Also because the electronics for the camera are behind the car, they last longer. Before I had an external camera and it rusted and filled with water. Now if you go with camera on the inside, facing out, they can not have I/R at all. If they do, at night the IR will reflect off the glass and you will not be able to see past the glass. All cameras that are built for the car can run on non regulated power. All my cameras are set up that way. Only the DQP and DVR have regulators.

Quote: Originally Posted by soundman98

heres the thing--high res cameras are available, but there is a cost to them-- less recording time, and you would also need a recorder that uses less compression. it is as much about what cameras you pick as what recorder you use, and how it compresses, and processes the footage.

most people that install a camera system want to go back as far as possible--for referance, a 16 input dvr using mpeg4 compression, 70% image quality(larger saved pixel area), and 320x240 resolution, 7fps and 1tb drives will net you at least 30 days recording-- to alot of businesses, anything lower than that is unacceptable

on the same system, raise the frames to 30fps, raise the quality to 100%(smaller saved pixels), and change to 640x480 res., and you can expect recording to drop down to at least 15 days-- so just a small amount of changes, and you would need 2 tb to get back near 30 days. (keep in mind that the image is still getting compressed all this time to save on recording space, at the cost of image quality)

now just imagine the amount of recording space that someone would need to get something similar to even 720 res in uncompressed format. there is a very small market for systems in that cost bracket- most would probably end up going to Vegas Casinos....(though ip cameras are quickly changing the rules...)

on a cctv forum, i read a post a while back on what type of camera it would take to get resolution shown on tv shows 'surveillance video recordings'--the color chip on the camera would be need to be near 5 feet across-- most standard cameras use 1/3" chips...

i laugh every time they 'enhance' a camera to read a licence plate that was 3,000 feet away, pointing towards the crime scene, and not looking anywhere near the building it was supposed to be monitoring...

in real life, the only way i can get a readable licence plate catpure/ or facial recognition is to put a camera over a small, narrow area that they MUST go through, and zoom the lens in where i expect them to be(usually overhead to get suspects/cars of different hights).

granted, there are cameras on the market that are designed to be dedicated for this, but most smaller companies do not want to pay that much for a camera that will only see a liscence plate/face...

sorry, i am kind of venting at what people have come to expect from cameras after watching shows like csi...

I agree with you 100%! People believe anything they see on TV now a days. Also something that you may want to add is the fact that these high res cameras are also alot bigger in size. I drive an SUV and I would never consider putting one of those on my car because it woudnt be flattering to the car.

As mentioned before by several users, the best thing to do is have high res cameras watching your car from your house. Then add normal cameras to your car for an added layer of protection. Then get a really good quality car alarm system. I plan on getting one with a one mile range, and that monitors everything, windows, doors, and what not, if anything is tampered with, it will go off. I am even looking to have it trigger my camera system if it goes off. Also if you do not plan on having auto start on your car, you could have this installed: Ravelco Anti theft. They basically rewire you car to this connector and because all connectors are different, it is imposiable for a theif to figure out the combination. I will note again though, that if you use this, auto start feature will not work unless you leave the connector in its socket, which would defeat the purpose. Another option is LoJack LoJack, which is monitored by the police. If your in another country, I am sure your country has something similar. Basically when your car is reported stolen, the police can directly track your car. Another option can be a GPS based system so you and the police can track the car, I also plan to use this also, unless I go with a LoJack. With all these methods combined, your car should be safe.

tempgp · 11-12-2009, 05:22 PM

to avoid blindnes by headlights there is special soft for the camera BIOS, and there are some special cameras, standard feature valled Wide Range Dynamics WRD (aka WDR) it takes low exosure frame and high exoposure frames and combines them in one so light blidbness is reduced. But you need smarter camera for this (or webcam w. custom drivers) chippo $10 webcams have it as Outdoor mode. My cam mounted unde the car w/ Outdor mode and UV+IR filter im gettin OK over headlights... still need to tweak filters, maybe mesh filter would work, have to hunt for it on ebay as new one cost half of the car lol

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