Another Cooling idea from a dreamer...

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-26-2005, 02:32 AM

Okay so i have an idea for thought....

I had made a post several months back about liquid cooling in a car and i experimented with it. the problem that i ran into (and had a feeling about it) was not a leak, but yet still not cooling. As we all know when you use liquid cooling in your desktop and whatnot, you need a radiator to cool off the water. well it ran cooler in my test, but after a while it starting running hotter than with just a fan. I have yet to investigate it more, but i gave up.

so here is my idea. ever seen one of the "car coolers" that you plug into your cigarette lighter and it keeps things cool up to 50F. well i have one and have yet to pull it apart and see how it works. but from the looks of it, the parts used to cool it are in a space no bigger than 4"x7"x5". So when i went to a local surplus store i found a very very small compressor(1.5"Dx3"L) and a small 12v motor to power it. Im not sure how an ac system works and im about to research it more. but would it be possible to make a very small (5"x5"x3") ac system that could cool up to 36F using R-134A?

and i know some of you out there are in total disagrement with me and my cooling ideas, but they are just ideas that i have come up with so that i can overclock my cpu without it overheating.

BADDERICK · 07-26-2005, 02:49 AM

the reason it heated up after running a while is because just like in a cars cooling system you need a thermastat to hold the coolent in the radiator long enough to cool it. if you run a car without a thermastat, on very hot days the water passes through so fast it can't cool it down and it overheats.

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-26-2005, 03:40 AM

Well i mounted my carpc underneath the passenger seat on rollers for easy access. and if you have ever felt the floor underneath the seats after you have been driving, it heats up from the drive shaft and the transmittion. this is expecially bad in a dodge dakota which i have. So even with a thermostat i dont think it would work to well. thats why i want to take apart the little car cooler and possible modify it to a lower temperature or just use it as is to cool the air in the case of the car pc.

Does anyone have a digram or know where i can get one to design a smaller system to atempt to custom build one. and some links so that i can find small enough pieces?

Bugbyte · 07-26-2005, 03:45 AM

I believe the car coolers are what are referred to as Peltier coolers. Peltier coolers work on the principle that a heat difference can be created from the application of electricity to a material of dissimilar metals. This is the opposite of the Seebeck effect, the creation of electricity from the difference in temperature in two metals. Peltier coolers are a form of solid state heat pump, also called Thermo Electric Converters (TEC's) Wikipedia definition

However, they require a lot of current to produce minmal cooling.

There's a link to a thread on cooling in the FAQ Emporium. Peltiers were discussed in there.

bigbrother82 · 07-26-2005, 07:03 PM

Sillydipstixs18--
I think your idea has potential but I think you should take a different tact. If you used the r134a directly piped to your cpu you would end up having a problem with condensation on your board, (which would bad), but if you kept the set up you had, and separated a small type ac unit to blow cool air onto the tubes carrying the current liquid you have, it would cool that and then carry it to the cpu, and should work better. I'm not sure if this is what you meant originally, but i think it is plausible.

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-26-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bigbrother82

Sillydipstixs18--
I think your idea has potential but I think you should take a different tact. If you used the r134a directly piped to your cpu you would end up having a problem with condensation on your board, (which would bad), but if you kept the set up you had, and separated a small type ac unit to blow cool air onto the tubes carrying the current liquid you have, it would cool that and then carry it to the cpu, and should work better. I'm not sure if this is what you meant originally, but i think it is plausible.

It would be a great source of cooling. basically what i intend to do is from scratch make and entire ac system like you would find in your car, use fans to blow the cold air where you want it and to cool the case. i spend the bulk of my day b4 work looking over how the compressors in cars and such work and i found a diagram online of an automotive ac compressor which i hope to recreate but much much smaller (preferable 3inches long by 1 inch diameter or something like that). and i dont know much about ac systems and the only think i have a clue about it r-134a. so that was automatically my choice.

xdjxklusivex · 07-26-2005, 09:16 PM

lkike u said in the first post the 12 volt cooler things for cars why not just take one of those and build ur pc into there? and make a new door for it with a vent so it dosnt build up ice inside?

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-26-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by xdjxklusivex

lkike u said in the first post the 12 volt cooler things for cars why not just take one of those and build ur pc into there? and make a new door for it with a vent so it dosnt build up ice inside?

I played around with it today and let it run with nothing inside of it and it builds up condentation(i cant spell for crap) and thats not good for your computer.

the reason why i want to make this work is for the people with the computers in tight tight places like behind the dash or in the glove box...it can basically be universal.

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-27-2005, 12:34 AM

I found a diagram of an automotive ac compressor and im attempting to use a pnuematic cylinder casing for the compressor. ideas please!!

Spike · 07-27-2005, 01:53 AM

Relocate the radiator OUTSIDE of your car, outside of closed compartments, where the heat can RADIATE away...If the radiator is not contantly and consistantly surrounded by cooler air, it will not function properly.

In addition, if one has too much tubing between the item(s) being cooled and the radiator, a larger pump is needed, not to mention more heat has a chance to enter the system after the water (or liquid) has been cooled by the radiator.

The larger pump will also add additional heat to the system (moving parts) but is necessary due to the increased distance of tubing (which will thus in turn decreasse the rate of flow and efectiveness of the cooling system)...

either way make a long story short, Big radiator, big pump, thick tubes, the water doesn't have to move real fast, it's more about VOLUME of water as opposed to pressure...low pressure, high volume.

Good luck mate

p.s. That is of course unless you try a different method. Peltier coooling is worthless for this application.

seanz0rz · 07-27-2005, 02:15 AM

several of my friends run phase change coolers on their computers

http://forum.overhauledpc.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26

a link to the forums... this should help. feel free to sign up and ask some questions.

McGreggor · 07-27-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BADDERICK

the reason it heated up after running a while is because just like in a cars cooling system you need a thermastat to hold the coolent in the radiator long enough to cool it. if you run a car without a thermastat, on very hot days the water passes through so fast it can't cool it down and it overheats.

Sorry, but that inaccurate. Its a common misconception that higher flow rates mean less cooling. Besides, don't thermostats in cars just control the cooling fan to come on/off?
When you have a closed loop watercooling system, car or pc, the water passes heat to the radiator to be disapated. If you double the flow rate, the water only spends half the amount of time in the radiator, but cycles through the rad twice which gives the same cooling performace. Hard to explain, but if you imagine a car on a race track that laps at a steady speed of 1lap per 60secs. It passes down the straight every lap, which takes say 20secs. If the car doubles its speed, it does the straight in 10secs, but for every 60secs its now doing 2 laps so spends the same amount of time on the straight.

jcdillin · 07-27-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sillydipstixs18

It would be a great source of cooling. basically what i intend to do is from scratch make and entire ac system like you would find in your car, use fans to blow the cold air where you want it and to cool the case. i spend the bulk of my day b4 work looking over how the compressors in cars and such work and i found a diagram online of an automotive ac compressor which i hope to recreate but much much smaller (preferable 3inches long by 1 inch diameter or something like that). and i dont know much about ac systems and the only think i have a clue about it r-134a. so that was automatically my choice.

So the first compressor you purchased will not do the job?

Sillydipstixs18 · 07-27-2005, 08:16 AM

Okay i spent the night clicking through the links and i have a question. if i buy and pump that has a input and output. like a water pump, could i use that as my compressor?

No, it wasnt what i thought it was. it looked like a compressor that would work, but it was similar to a electric tire pump

Keebortz · 07-27-2005, 08:22 AM

Maybe I'm simple minded... but why? Most of us are going to keep are cars comfortable and if you have a simple push/pull fan setup on your enclosure you're going to keep things cool enough. Why go through all this in the first place?

Now if you're just going for cool points!!!

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