Yet another reason to loathe Microsoft - Page 2

Lovecraft · 04-24-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Area3

Do You Listen to Music At All?

85% Of All Music Is Made on a Mac...

79% Of Graphics Designers And Professional Photographers Use a Mac

So In Turn apple Is Very Usefull and Is Used Alot...

You get what you pay for

What percentage of those stats were made up on the spot?

Lithoss · 04-24-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by chaksq

I am afraid I have to disagree with you. First you mention your company is too cheap to upgrade, ever consider other reasons. Don't fix what isn't broken comes to mind, also an upgrade may be overkill depending on the application.

I agree. Techinically, MS-DOS isn't broken either. We should all still be running it instead.
Along with that thought, there was technically nothing wrong with candles, cd's, betamax etc... etc etc.
If you followed that mentality we'd still be in the stone ages.

Lovecraft took care of your power user driver issues for me, no need for further comment.

Bugbyte · 04-24-2008, 08:43 PM

I dunno, I think he's onto something. My company hasn't upgraded to Vista because it breaks a bunch of our internal apps. It costs time and money to rewrite those and they work just fine right now, thank you very much.

What's the compelling reason to upgrade? It's not like Vista suddenly lowers the cost of ownership or magically reduces support costs. Our helpdesk is so familiar with known XP issues that switching to Vista would set us back for quite awhile. All fine and good if there's something in Vista that will eventually pay off down the road.

There's not, though. End of story. Sticking with XP until MS forces us to upgrade.

Lithoss · 04-24-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

I dunno, I think he's onto something. My company hasn't upgraded to Vista because it breaks a bunch of our internal apps. It costs time and money to rewrite those and they work just fine right now, thank you very much.

What's the compelling reason to upgrade? It's not like Vista suddenly lowers the cost of ownership or magically reduces support costs. Our helpdesk is so familiar with known XP issues that switching to Vista would set us back for quite awhile. All fine and good if there's something in Vista that will eventually pay off down the road.

There's not, though. End of story. Sticking with XP until MS forces us to upgrade.

My company hasn't upgraded for the same reason. Cost issues are issues, but familiarity can only be an "excuse" so long. Everyone else has to learn and stay with the current technology, why shouldnt IT people?
Vista isn't THAT much different than XP, really. Bringing apps up to speed (some ancient) really isn't that difficult. I'm running many programs on my vista install that i've been running since 98SE. I actually have yet to run across a program i use that won't work in vista with some minor tweaking. hell even office 2000 runs fine if you don't need the outlook address book...

But my original post was asking what flaws so many people know about that warrant such bashing of Vista? Sometimes mac and linux fanboys just need to be challenged, one gets tired of their blind, trendy faith.

For the record, i have nothing against linux. I'm dual booting Ubuntu along with my Xp and Vista isntall (i guess that would be triple boot?) Its great and its free, its just not near as universally flexible as windows. I really have no use for it other than to play around with it.

2k1Toaster · 04-24-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lithoss

So what is wrong with vista? Everyone loves to bash it, but nobody ever has a legit reason why it is no good.

I have a quadruple boot now on my desktop (osx/linux/xp/vista)

XP wins by far. The hardware is by no means brand new, but it is speedy enough.

Vista has a bunch of problems. Legit problems.

To name a few:

The endless reboot patch where it would destroy the kernel file when you install the update as a pre-req for installing SP1.

ACPI drivers (Microsoft side) are flaky at best. Dont know what they did, but there are numerous reports of S3 problems. Most are crashing on wake, but my laptop has a problem where I cannot put it to sleep if it is on mains power. I have to unplug it before I put it to sleep or the screen would turn off and never come back with the fans on full blast and HDD light going crazy. Left in that state it will run forever (at least overnight). And no I am not retarded and I know about the Power Options...

So much damned "protection" that it freezes windows mobile 6 devices over activation if you sync it with a non-Vista PC as well.

Dont know if they fixed this one or not, but if you had Windows Media Player open (or any program that can play protected content) while doing some update you would lose the ability to play all DRM content... In all programs...

Again the stupid people protection now makes file copy so slow. It has to gain access to every file so you dont overwrite something valueable like the "windows experience index" xml file

and then ask for permission to copy them. Copying a single large file is not too much of a problem. But trying to copy a bunch of little files. results in doom.

Also the Out of Memory Exception is a particular annoyance that plagues me personally on my laptop. WHen trying to copy a large file between disks like from a CD to the HD or from HD to a flash drive over like 200Mb, it results in a huge system slow down, RAM goes to 100%, CPU goes to 100%, and after a while it comes back "Out of Memory" and cancels the transfer. This one has even stumped Microsoft because their tech files even say "we know it is a problem, we dont know how to fix it". So when doing large file transfers I have to open the command prompt and copy it that way with switches so it doesnt do the network check...

Should I go on?

So dont defend something you don't know about. People say Vista is crap, because it is crap. It looks pretty though.

Lithoss · 04-24-2008, 10:32 PM

XP is a better OS right now, i never denied that. But 98SE was a better OS when XP first came out as well.

I've never had any of those problems. Maybe im just not using it to do those things much.

DRM is a waste of time. Why even bother? Just buy music off amazon DRM free. Still a legit bug, however.

My samsung i760 with windows mobile 6.0 works fine w/ syncing.

Thank you for some intelligent reasons, though. its refreshing. However, saying i know nothing about it is not the case.

On a side note, XP was pretty bad for a while as well while they were working out kinks. I would expect Vista to be the same.

toyotatyrant · 04-25-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

I have a quadruple boot now on my desktop (osx/linux/xp/vista)

XP wins by far. The hardware is by no means brand new, but it is speedy enough.

Vista has a bunch of problems. Legit problems.

To name a few:

The endless reboot patch where it would destroy the kernel file when you install the update as a pre-req for installing SP1.

ACPI drivers (Microsoft side) are flaky at best. Dont know what they did, but there are numerous reports of S3 problems. Most are crashing on wake, but my laptop has a problem where I cannot put it to sleep if it is on mains power. I have to unplug it before I put it to sleep or the screen would turn off and never come back with the fans on full blast and HDD light going crazy. Left in that state it will run forever (at least overnight). And no I am not retarded and I know about the Power Options...

So much damned "protection" that it freezes windows mobile 6 devices over activation if you sync it with a non-Vista PC as well.

Dont know if they fixed this one or not, but if you had Windows Media Player open (or any program that can play protected content) while doing some update you would lose the ability to play all DRM content... In all programs...

Again the stupid people protection now makes file copy so slow. It has to gain access to every file so you dont overwrite something valueable like the "windows experience index" xml file

and then ask for permission to copy them. Copying a single large file is not too much of a problem. But trying to copy a bunch of little files. results in doom.

Also the Out of Memory Exception is a particular annoyance that plagues me personally on my laptop. WHen trying to copy a large file between disks like from a CD to the HD or from HD to a flash drive over like 200Mb, it results in a huge system slow down, RAM goes to 100%, CPU goes to 100%, and after a while it comes back "Out of Memory" and cancels the transfer. This one has even stumped Microsoft because their tech files even say "we know it is a problem, we dont know how to fix it". So when doing large file transfers I have to open the command prompt and copy it that way with switches so it doesnt do the network check...

Should I go on?

So dont defend something you don't know about. People say Vista is crap, because it is crap. It looks pretty though.

Lovecraft · 04-25-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

So dont defend something you don't know about.

Whoa? What's with the attack on the guy?

Seriously, expecting a new OS to fully support legacy apps is ridiculous. Don't slam the new technology because of that. You don't expect a P3 CPU to work in your dual-core motherboard do you? There comes a point when "out with the old - in with the new" must happen.

Out of the box, Vista has worked perfectly with all ACPI functions in my HTPC for which I bought it. Sleep mode works perfectly, the machine even wakes itself up, records the show, and powers down on its own. Vista even properly detected my capture card and ALL my hardware after I fought with XP MCE for several days trying to get the card to work.

I've had no troubles copying directories of tens of thousands of files and folders as you report either. I recently copied my 80GB MP3 collection 3 times to and from internal and external drives without issue. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Maybe it's your hardware?

Nero Burning was broken on Vista until Nero released a patch.

My point being that any new OS has teething problems, and Vista is far from the crap many people and the mac ads make it out to be. When you consider the infinite hardware and software combinations the Windows OS can actually run on, you've got to cut them a little slack.

greatwhite · 04-25-2008, 05:00 PM

Dunno, Vista is working fine for me. Occational hickup, nothing serious.

Most of the issues mentioned here I haven't had.

Not geting in the middle of this any more than that.

Oh yeah, I'm not a "vista fanboy", it just works for my needs. So did XP.

Cheers

chaksq · 04-28-2008, 04:07 PM

Sorry if I caused any confusion. I understand that in a while Vista will probably be super stable, but I don't need stability in a year, I need my systems to be functional now. I don't see why I need to be an early adopter, everything I need/want runs under XP and for the time being it is more stable for my gaming machine. Eventually I'll fully switch over to Vista when all the bugs are worked out.

I do actually use Vista, it's the secondary OS on my dual boot laptop. With Fedora 8 linux being the primary.

Chris31 · 04-29-2008, 04:50 PM

When vista first came out, I was relactant to upgrade after reading all the negative comments about vista.

Got myself a copy of vista x64 and installed it on my dual xeons, almost ZERO problems, even the old SW worked. I liked it so much that I build another high spec dual CPUs workstation.

If you cant get vista to work on your PC there is no need to go around bashing it. Vista worked well for me as well for many others. It didnt work for you, tough, stick with XP then, no big deal, no one died...but it doesnt mean vista is a crap OS

moboman · 05-11-2008, 03:18 PM

We've run into some serious problems with vista... One lady is a secretary, after having computers swapped and all kinds of hard ware replaced, vista was downgraded to XP pro. No problems now.

What it was was she has these pdf's that are hundreds of pages long, she converts word documents to pdf, she has 10 different things going on at one time. Under vista, the machine would reboot and blue screen, under xp, no problems in months.

Her computer is a core 2 duo, with 4gb's of ram.

Lithoss · 05-11-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by moboman

We've run into some serious problems with vista... One lady is a secretary, after having computers swapped and all kinds of hard ware replaced, vista was downgraded to XP pro. No problems now.

What it was was she has these pdf's that are hundreds of pages long, she converts word documents to pdf, she has 10 different things going on at one time. Under vista, the machine would reboot and blue screen, under xp, no problems in months.

Her computer is a core 2 duo, with 4gb's of ram.

processor speed and amount of RAM will have no affect on the fact that other components (probably cheap ones) most likely had incorrect and/or poorly written drivers. just saying that it works on xp and not vista does not prove that vista is or is not the problem.

moboman · 05-11-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lithoss

processor speed and amount of RAM will have no affect on the fact that other components (probably cheap ones) most likely had incorrect and/or poorly written drivers. just saying that it works on xp and not vista does not prove that vista is or is not the problem.

The computer works fine with vista, it was shipped from HP with vista. (I hate HP). It just doesnt like that she does a million things at once. The office has a few other machines that are exactly the same with no problems. They are even using the same software.

CarComp · 05-12-2008, 04:17 AM

Vista is difficult to develop on with VB6.