2k1Toaster

agree 100%. I have a desktop quad booting at the moment now too (XP/Vista/OSX/Fedora) so I am no stranger to the "mac" world. I however dont use the osx partition much anymore, easier in xp almost every time.

But I refuse outright to buy any Apple product. No iPod, iPhone, iMac, iCrap, whatever. I cannot stand their busienss model, and every time I see their mac vs. pc ads, it makes my blood boil and even more so when I realize that people believe that crap. I see rebuttal ads play in my head.

And I have been saying for a while now, pick a frontend. Whatever OS it runs on, use it. I see the XP desktop in my car for about a half second before RR's splash screen covers most of it, and another 1 to 2 seconds before RR is fullscreen and playing music.

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LittleDragon

Just like how PC stability would go up if MS picked and produced complete machines, OSX's stability would go down... way down if Apple actually allowed other manufacturers to build clones. I don't think Apple would even have the resources to make OSX work with every piece of hardware out there.




Yeah, I like OSX and think it's a great OS for people who don't know much about computers or are just plain careless with their surfing. But really they don't have the marketshare for hackers and virus makers to care. There was a report put out 6 months ago that showed OSX had had 5x the security flaws that Windows had and most of them were critical. The report was basically Tiger vs XP AND Vista (Leopard was still new and Vista had been out for about a year). Think of the mac community as a little neighborhood that left their doors unlocked because the baddies tend to leave them alone but all it takes is one guy to have a field day.

I hate Apple as a company and to me, their products are nothing more than fashion items. They are not innovative like people think. They take existing products, put them in some shiny packaging and market them as trendy/cool... Mac fans lap it up. Their computers, especially now that they're using Intel chips are nothing more than overpriced PC's. The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player around, it's just the most popular and has mediocre sound quality. What part of the iPhone did they invent? The touchscreen? Mobile phone portion? Tell you the truth, it's horrible as a phone. The Macbook Air... take something like a Lenovo X series, take out the useful stuff like optical drives and ports.. voila.. Macbook Air. Even OSX is repackaged FreeBSD, a FREE operating system.

The Mac vs PC's are full of lies but to the fans, Apple can do no wrong. Hypocrites... They cry foul when MS packages IE with Windows but it's okay when I have to around removing Safari that was shoved onto people's PC's as a part of some iTunes update. They yell monopoly but it's okay when they pretty much own the MP3 player market. I've met some cool mac users but they weren't the type to praise anything and use the right tool for the job.


I can go on forever but I think I'm done for now



Yeah considering most of the cutting edge PC technologies comes first on the Wintel platform. If there's anything out there that pushes the boundaries of what computers can do, it's gaming. If all we do with computers is internet surfing, email, spreadsheets, etc then 5 year old technology is good enough for another 5 years before we need extra processing power. Games and gaming hardware is much more widely available for PC's. Macs usually have to wait for a translation that'll run properly with their generally weak graphics power.

NeonDev

@2k1toaster - i know a lot of mac users (such as myself) who can't stand those insipid mac vs. pc commercials. ironically I work with some PC users who love them...

I also definitely agree with you that the OS does not matter. its all about the FE. Many of the mac users in the Maccar forum disagree and I can't quite wrap my head around it. I think a rally well designed FE should make it hard for passengers in your car to tell that it is running on a home computer yet alone if it is running on a PC or Mac

Im using a mac in my car mostly because I wanted to write my own FE and I am very good at programming for os x but no next to nothing about windows programming.

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2k1Toaster

very much so.

I think it was that same article that had the time to respond too. Microsoft has released a patch for a security flaw within 20 days since 2000 or something, while apple still hasnt fixed many holes reported months and months and months ago, and did not even say they were working on it.

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Bugbyte

Actually, I don't care. I consider Windows XP as a perfectly acceptable OS for the car. So is OSX.

The internal combustion engine isn't 'modern' but they sure have done a lot of engineering to make it more efficient and reliable. Same with both XP and OSX.

I don't necessarily agree with all of the Apple bashers. I'm no computer idiot but I prefer OSX. So what? 2K1 knows better how to do stuff in other OS's and has no need for OSX. Again, so what?

Unless you are doing something completely different, it is the FE that matters. And Windows FE's are more advanced than Apple ones. Probably always will be due to the overwhelming support and development for Windows. Again, so what? Run the one you want - its your project.

Just make sure you aren't perpetuating the myths out there.

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crooper

It bugs me when people compare Windows and MacOS with the argument that Windows crashes a lot and MacOS doesn't... which is BS because the MacOS crashes too. They just have a pretty face and a cult-like following (which seem to focus more on being "different" and not on actual hardware and software).

I like Vista on my home computers, but use XP SP2 in my car. Works great.

samantech

I'll go will bugbyte. It's your own project. by opening this thread no body is attacking anything. Most of the people are biased toward either. Both of the great OSs, both of them have flaws. Though being an IT guy I should correct the crash thing that, ....both of them crash but: MOST OF THE TIME IF AN APP CRASHES IT MOST PROBABLY TAKE DOWN WINDOWS WITH ITSELF. COMPARE THE END TASK IN BOTH OS(S) AND YOU DON'T BE BIASED. I AM A MICROSOFT CERTIFIED ENGINEER. I AM NOT AGAINST IT.

To tell you the truth I am going for an intel chip mac to have windows in my car. for example , the municipality of our city provides a very immense dbase about everything, shops and doctors, etc. along with the city maps. and it's an .exe file and i want to have it on my machine. so there are many other apps out there we want all to use it. So why not get the best of both worlds.

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LittleDragon

Windows = bluescreen and OSX = kernel panic. Since Win2k, I've never had an app take down windows. It's always been some faulty piece of hardware or poorly written 3rd party driver. The bluescreen is good at telling you which dll caused it while the OSX gray screen just tells you to reboot.

Jirka Jirout

Both systems should write a crash log to the disk, so the actual message displayed to the user is rather irrelevant.

LittleDragon

The crash log gives more detail than the blue screen but the blue screen is sufficient for telling you what crashed the system and I don't normally go further than that...

NeonDev

the blue screen doesn't mean jack to your average user and if/when os x kernel panics upon reboot you are presented with a dialogue asking you to submit the crash report to apple and if you show details it will provide you with info pretty much identical to the BSOD if not more in depth.

neither system, modern versions of each, crashes more than once in a blue moon (chronic driver/hardware problems not withstanding)

with that said I don't feel like system stability has any bearing on choosing which OS to run in your car.

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LittleDragon

I haven't seen leopard do that, just shows me the screen with a picture of the power button telling me to turn it power cycle it. Few times, it reboots itself without telling me anything. Working away and I hear that boot sound all of the sudden.

NeonDev

right that dialog won't show up until the computer has rebooted and I think you have to log in first too. you should see a message along the lines of the computer was restarted after os x unexpectedly quit... its in there if you look at the report. obviously if you just click ignore or whatever you won't see the data

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2k1Toaster

And also if you BSOD on a windows box, (at least on XP not sure about vista) you get the "a serious system error has occurred" or something box on reboot, with the send to microsoft messge. If you go to details you can find the same info as was in the bsod and more if it did a full memory dump. So both do the same thing essentially.

It was funny yesterday though. I needed a break from programming so I went downstairs and got a magazine off the shelf. PC World, April 1997. Cyrix CPU's were her to stay, the Dell XPS was $3299 for a 266Mhz Pentium with MMX (and the MMX was a big selling point), AMD fanboys complaining that MMX instructions were not here to stay. It was hillarious. You could add a DVD drive to your computer for $599 plus the cost of a PCI card to decode it! Anyways, they had an article on their about NT vs. Win95 vs. Mac OS8 regarding graphics and everything. It was a nostalgic read about the PowerPC chip and te video editing software. They even kept saying "macs are the computer of choice, since there is relatively few software titles, plugins, or coder backings for the windows platform". At the end it was "but will NT change this?"

Just thought I would share, I couldnt stop reading all the articles they had. In the bug section they mentioned how "notice there are more internet related bugs here than ever before, this seems to be an ongoing trend". Last months issue was all internet related, security and such.

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insaneramman

If you want a Mac buy it. If you want a Win PC buy it. Cause as soon as you open it it's old tech. And no matter who makes it, it will have flaws if it didn't all the apple IIe's and windows 3.1 machines would still be in our homes, not the case however. I picked my machine and its os FOR the frontend I wanted to use. It's your money if you want my input send the money to me