F-Body Ideas - Camaro and Firebird - Page 15

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 11:11 AM

yeah, it's the 300x2 & 100x4... I do have a few smaller mcintoshes that I can match to this one, that's not the problem, I chose this amp because I love the way my mcintoshes sound, & there pg circuitry is awsome for guys like me who want to push it, but still control distortion... & this amp is beutiful... it'll be the centerpiece of my hatch area....

I have considered just ditching it & going with something else more powerful & maybe a 1/4 the size too, but I'm still debating this end..... power isn't everything, & a really good 1,2-1,400 watt system is enough for me really.. but I would like to open up my choices of subs.... I haven't really decided that end of it yet, that'll be last.... I could sell my mcintoshes & get pretty much anything else... that mc4000m has to still be good for around $1,500 or so on ebay..., but man, does it look impressive

I don't know those amps you've shown, but I wouldn't skimp in the amp area...

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 11:26 AM

What I've found is that most of the high end subs are going to need quite a bit of power. Typically 1K-2k watts each. If you look at the response of that LMT sub I posted in a 3 cu ft sealed enclosure you see it's amazing to 30Hz where it drops 5 dB. Then look at the 5 cu ft ported at 20 Hz. You can EQ down the peak easily and have a very flat response that will only get bigger on the bottom end once in your vehicle. That thing is a 20 Hz monster!

Compare that subs response to their regular 15".
http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_p...formation.html

There is just no comparison.

What do the 300w x 2 channels need on your amp? 2 4 ohm loads? Can those 2 channels be bridged?

BTW, I would not consider ditching the Mc amp, just add another amp someplace. You want one or 2 subs?

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 12:00 PM

Some amps are called class BD, class D, class X and some are digital amps.

Maybe this list will help find a good amp that delivers it's power at 4 ohms.
http://www.lightav.com/car/amps/poweramps.html

Our old school amps are great, but they suck the batteries dry.

I don't think I could afford $600 for a LMT sub AND have to buy a new amp to go with it. I'm sure you could.

I think a regular old sub like the 3 I mentioned will probably be just fine for me. I typically don't pound the bass as I like everything balanced, but sometimes I feel like shaking ***** up!

If I find a big *** sub amp that is very efficient and sounds good, I'll let you know. Yours and my alternator will thank us.

PS, check out this guys page every now and then for old school amps.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZjustonemoreampQQhtZ-1

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 12:13 PM

the 300's can't be bridged & need 4 ohm loads, but the 100X4 can bridge to 400x2... I did decide on the id's a while ago, but i'm not too sure I want that

I'm still not sure exactly what I want to tell you the truth.... I have a pair of illusion audio nd-15's that would be a perfect match, but I'm afraid to build for them cause there ireplaceable if I have any problems with one, & nothing else will go in there place really, so they just sit... the only way I'll use them is if I only do one, & then keep one for a spare... I like spares

to add another amp wouldn't be to practical... the 4000 is massive by itself, & I don't plan on having a ton of speakers....

some days I just want to round out my system with bass to match, & some days I get the urge to like 4k watt the ***** with like mmats or something

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 12:18 PM

I have a collection of old school amps, I love the old mosfets... I have a bunch of rockfords original power 650's & matching 300's & a 150 or 2 maybe... I've got a few mcintoshes & I've got a bunch of original ppi art series amps inc. a few big momma's like the mc4000m's size almost... 2350dm's I think... I don't want to collect any more dinasaurs... I also have a huge alternator that I could use if I decided to really go off...., just not sure if that's what I want...

I do know all about the class D's... I guess I could settle for those for bass alone maybe...

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 12:34 PM

awe man, wtf did you have to give me that guys link for.... man, now you got me going again... he's got a few sweet pieces right now even, including another power 650 that matches the ones I have.... some really oldschool soundstreams & orions..... ****... I gotta stay away, but I added him to my favorite sellers list

I had my own car audio shop over 17 years ago, & I remember using most of what he has listed in competition installs back then.... you can't beat the original oldschool hand built stuff, although today tech has surpassed most everything oldschool, but I still have a place in my heart for the old school amps

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 12:59 PM

Then you won't want to look at this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rockford...QQcmdZViewItem

Talk about sweet!

Anyway, back to earth. You could always put a high tech new style mono amp hidden somewhere just to power a sub.
So far I've found:
SOUNDSTREAM PICASSO PCA3500D 3500 WATT MONO AMP NEW 06 (1800w@4 ohm) for about $600.

MA AUDIO HK4000D 4000 WATT CLASS D MONO AMP (2500w@4 ohm) for about $530.

JL AUDIO 1000/1 CLASS D MONO BASS AMPLIFIER (1000w@4 ohm) for about $650.

I'm going to have to do a bunch of research on these new style sub amps because those LMT style subs seem badass and I'd like to get one. I like strong 20Hz.

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 01:10 PM

awe man, I had a few of those chrome 1,000's way back when...

I remember when mark fakuda was WORLD CHAMPION SPL with these, at a whoping 154db back then, his blazer was stuffed to the max

, just goes to show how far car audio has come in 20 years, now adays 154db is easily achievable by any average joe

what's the record now?... I think there hitting over 170....

I have no room to hide anther amp, & even if I did, what would I even run off the 4000?... to me it's all or nothing I guess...

the newer soundstreams are crap from what I hear.. ma audio is like mediocre... the jl is a good ole standby... not exceptional in any area but raw class d power I guess... have you considered 1 13w7 & a 1,000?... that would give you some bump in your trunk for sure

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 01:18 PM

I got to see Mark and his Blazer way back when at a sound off here in TX. I think it was in Bridge City. Things have changed quite a bit.

Whatever sub box you make, you could include a little depression in it to mount an amp flush and keep it hidden. Maybe add a fan to keep it cool, but totally stealth. I was thinking one 15" LMT with about 1500-2000 watts would do you good for high SQ as well as ultra low, clean bass.

Do you know of any good quality class D or similar amps?

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

have you considered 1 13w7 & a 1,000?... that would give you some bump in your trunk for sure

I hear the JBL is a tad better in SQ and in SPL in comparison to the W7's.

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 02:14 PM

I think the jl 1,000's are pretty decent... I like mmats too, but maybe a bit pricey.... I haven't kept up too much on all the newer class D stuff...

I guess 1 jbl 15" should do really nicely in your car.... this'll be a bit more than just enough though

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 02:26 PM

Yea, my old Image Dynamics IDQ12DVC does pretty good for what it is. More of a fast SQ amp than a pounder. That one sealed 12 with 300w does pretty good, volume wise. So I'm trying to imagine something like a new 15" JBL or Rockford T1 with their much higher excursion, a ported enclosure and 1200 watts. Even sealed, it should blow me away!

I need to get out and listen to some, but the sound off season has ended. I'll have to hunt around.

I just talked to my installer friends (IASCA World Champs, no local yokels) and they said all the class D's sound bad. None of them give you that fast snap and they are mostly for SPL contests, not for SQ. So I doubt I'd end up getting one. I guess I'll stick with my class AB amps and hope the alternator can handle it.

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 02:44 PM

yeah, I'm not a very big fan of class D myself, but once you start wanting to go with 2,000 watts & better, sound quality has to go down as far as priorities...

I still really love the old school mosfets, efficency sucks, but then again, so do tube amps, which are worse still, but to this day, the ultimate in sq...

I would go sealed personally, to me the extra spl isn't worth the tradeoff in sloppyness & peakyness, but pro's will argue both sides of the fence there I guess... & it depends on a few variables, but I'd always choose sealed for ultimate sq...

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 02:51 PM

I've been to a lot of competitions and never heard a ported box I liked, but I want to at least experiment and try it out.

If I could find some 4" valves to seal the ports or rig an actuator to seal them, then that would be ideal. I could open the ports while driving and switch presets on the H700 for when I want to annoy people.

Have you seen anything like that or think it can be made?

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 03:20 PM

, my friends used to, & still do tell me I'm too picky, but I agree, I never heard a ported box that was awsome in sq.... awsome in making loud noises, but not sq... Ive heard really good, but always felt it would be a bit better sealed & tighter...

I did design a box many years ago that did what you said, convert from ported to sealed, but the 2 things you have to do is seal the ports of course, but you also have to reduce the box volume, sometimes as much as 25-30%... if not, it'll be too boomy... it was a complicated design with a moving wall & I never felt it was quite as good as a sealed box anyway when in sealed mode... theres a lot of sound pressure, & even slight leakage or wall flex/movement will take away... the customer was happy with it, I was happy that I got paid for it, but that's about all I was happy with in that box

the best way to do what you want is doing it manually, but you'll have to remove the sub or a secured wall to change the volume... can be ok for testing & tuning, but not practical for daily switching for sure...

since I did that "convertable" box though, I have redesigned it in my head somewhat, & I think I do have a better way of doing it with discs that won't have the negative affects of the one I did build, but the only slight drawback may be a slight standing wave issue with the pocket., & of course the actuators complicate things a bit... oh well, tbh I would just say keep it sealed, you'll save a bit of space too...

JasonWW · 10-27-2006, 03:31 PM

Your probably right. If I've never heard a ported box I liked from all those SQ cars then I doubt I would like it. I like the idea, though.

I did find some valves, bloody expensive.

This one is $70 and the pics below are $250 and up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Gate-Knife-Val...QQcmdZViewItem

I like that door looking valve. You'd have to get out and close it or screw a cap over the end.

There are 4" exhaust valves that are automated to fully open and close with one touch, but I doubt they seal tight.

You wouldn't need to change the enclosure volume would you? I thought a bit oversized for a sealed setup would be good. Give it more bottom end.

Why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone with your older box design? Have a portion of the box (like a basement) with ports in it and an actuator that opens and closes the basement door. Open the door the enclosure gets bigger and the ports come into play. Close the door, the ports are sealed and the box size is smaller. Is that what is needed for a truly ported/sealed convertible box? Jeez, I may stick to sealed.