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Old 12-24-2005, 01:42 PM   #16
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who ran the tooting popular front?

Go on, show your age.........
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Old 12-24-2005, 01:45 PM   #17
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Its illegal to mask plates etc.

But to blanket them in IR may upset the cameras, or not wash them.....
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Old 12-25-2005, 05:33 AM   #18
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Quote: Originally Posted by lez
who ran the tooting popular front?

Go on, show your age.........

Wolfie
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Old 12-25-2005, 03:00 PM   #19
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:53 PM   #20
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Britain plans total electronic surveillance of roads
In trial runs, the high-tech system increased arrests per officer tenfold.

Mark Rice-Oxley / Christian Science Monitor | January 11 2006

LONDON – First there was closed-circuit TV. Then speed cameras. Then DNA profiling, plans for ID cards, and cellphone data storage.
In March, Britain will enhance its reputation as the surveillance capital of the West with a global first: recording the movements of all cars on the road and storing the data for at least two years.


It's a network of thousands of cameras harnessed to software that can read car license plates, check them against a central database, and alert police to suspected criminals or terrorists.Police chiefs are thrilled at the technology, arguing it will provide an unrivaled crime-fighting tool that will also aid antiterror efforts.
In regional trial runs, the number of arrests per officer shot up from around 10 per year to 100 per year. Convictions also increased.

But civil liberty activists are aghast at yet another move by the authorities to spy on citizens in the name of security and law and order, warning of a growing bank of Orwellian technology.

"The freedom and anonymity of the open road is something that is culturally important here," says Simon Davies, director of Privacy International. "Now like some scene in '1984,' the fact that we will travel and be detected and analyzed changes the whole psyche of the nation."

In their defense, police say they need the best technology available to reduce perennially rising crime rates and face an acute terror threat.

"Criminals use cars, it's as simple as that," says John Dean, a retired officer who is coordinating the rollout of the automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) program.

"It's taken a while to get the police service to realize that this can make a significant difference to crime detection and terrorism."

Same cameras, new cross-checking

Britain's 30 million motorists have long been used to assiduous roadside camera surveillance, be it to deter speeding or monitor London's congestion charge - an £8 ($14) fee charged for driving into central London during business hours.

But the ANPR nationwide system will use the extensive camera network already in place as well as new cameras to capturelicenseplates from as many as 50 million cars a day and store them in a vast databank with date, time, and location stamps.

Within a matter of seconds, the database will signal whether the car may be of interest to police, cross-checking the plate against a list of stolen and suspect vehicles and also verifying for proper insurance, taxation, and roadworthiness. Dedicated ANPR operators will then alert roadside units to the rogue vehicle.

"People who drive stolen cars often steal them as a result of burglary," says Mr. Dean, so you might find property in the back or other material. It's very efficient."

Police say life is about to get tougher for criminals, whether they are involved with drugs, firearms, identity fraud, or property theft.

Or terrorism. At least one vehicle was used to convey the July 7 bombers and their materials part of the way to London last year. Police are not saying that ANPR would automatically have foiled the plot. But Dean says the technology, already in use at a local level in some parts of the country, had brought "benefits to the investigation."

Tracking movements over a long period

Even if an immediate arrest is not possible, the data will help the authorities build up an intelligence picture of the movements of suspicious vehicles and analyze journeys that drivers have made over several years. The intelligence service MI5 will also use the database, according to Frank Whiteley, a senior police officer.

But not everyone thinks that trusting cameras and cops is a good idea.Already in Britain there is a fierce lobby opposed to the proliferation of speed cameras, which many see as a tool of the tax man rather than a road safety enforcer.

Some wonder whether ANPR, which will cost tens of millions of pounds to set up, will be used primarily to drum up fines and revenues from road-tax delinquents.

Nigel Humphries of the Association of British Drivers lobby group worries that "real criminals have cars that can't be traced anyway." He says the system may offer benefits, but "there need to be safeguards."

Parliament should have oversight

Edward Garnier, a Conservative MP and spokesman on home affairs, says that Parliament, not the police, should act as arbiters over the system because of its implications for the criminal justice system and for civil liberties.

"I can understand why the police want to use this technology but they should not be the arbiters," he says.

Privacy and civil liberty champions take a more fundamental opposition to the scheme. Mr. Davies of Privacy International, likens it to "weeding with a bulldozer."

"So long as you believe that every person in government and authority is just and fair and that the machinery of the state never screws up, then it's fine," he says. In fact, the ANPR technology has fallen well short of a 100 percent score in policing London's congestion fee. Other police databases have similarly proven fallible.

Opponents of surveillance say Britain is rapidly emerging as the biggest of Big Brother societies, a "database state" with an increasing tendency for automated answers to social questions.

The government still plans to use biometric identity cards beginning in 2008, together with a national database. A national DNA database already has samples from 1 in 10 British adults, more than 100,000 of whom have never been charged or even cautioned. And last month, Britain persuaded its European partners to join it in storing data from cellphone records for up to two years as a counter-terrorism tool.

And it may not stop there.

Experts are already working on systems that can automatically recognize human faces and it may not be long before machines can pick out a "suspicious" face in a crowd. Many on both left and right of the political spectrum find the growing use of surveillance disturbing.

"Frankly I don't want to see a society in which the Big Brother element comes to the fore," says MP Garnier.
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:15 PM   #21
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hmmm caught on camera in bristol then up in Liverpool 180 miles away 2hrs later...oh dear i might be in for some trouble!
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:40 AM   #22
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Quote: Originally Posted by Scouse Monkey
hmmm caught on camera in bristol then up in Liverpool 180 miles away 2hrs later...oh dear i might be in for some trouble!

Just tell them your car must have been cloned.
No way a honest law abiding motorist would consider such a thing "I didn't know my car could even go that fast your honour".
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Old 01-12-2006, 10:11 AM   #23
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Thats it i've had enough. Time to draw up my final plans to leave the country. Anyone coming?
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:04 PM   #24
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Quote: Originally Posted by WhoIsThisGuy?
Thats it i've had enough. Time to draw up my final plans to leave the country. Anyone coming?

Yeah, man - let's go to Amsterdam! We could be like Thelma 'n' Louise.... Well maybe not then.....

Seriously though - guess who's going to have to pay for this ****?? Yeah that's right - us ****ers! UK motorists pay for pretty much ******* everything. The excuses range from congestion, pollution, blah blah - ******* ****s like Prince Charles and Tony Blair can babble on about pollution whilst racking up their free air miles but everyday people have to bear the brunt of anything that needs to be paid for.

So the official line is crime and terrorism. Well, as far as Blair is concerened, it takes one to know one...... This technology will also have the ability to work out average speeds over a given distance.....and let's face it - everyone speeds here - even police officers. If they really wanted, they could be on to a real ******* goldmine too......
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:28 AM   #25
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I mean the whole point of terrorism is to make us change our way of life. Every time we remove another freedom, we are goose stepping one step closer to losing the fight

Terrorism sure makes it easy for the government to take away our civil rights. Meanwhile Osama is free and the oil rich land of Iraq is somewhat secure.

Terrorism can never be defeated, it's a tactic. A cheap and simple one. It will be with us forever.

As for anyone who thinks this is a good idea, I have a question for you- do you come to a full and complete stop at a stopsign? No one does here, it's doesn't cause problems and the cops have more important violations to go after. Now if a computer could watch you at the stopsigns and you didn't stop, what the hell, have the computer start sending out fines, it's like free money with no police work involved.
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:55 AM   #26
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Quote: Originally Posted by WhoIsThisGuy?
Thats it i've had enough. Time to draw up my final plans to leave the country. Anyone coming?

I already have, I left the UK 5 years ago. I saw this coming. Under president blair we are well on track to a police state in the uk where not being pc will get you arrested, crime is rampant (how if its a police state?) and legal uk citizens are out of work because the illegal immigrants have got all the jobs. What little money you have left after the high taxes doesn't get far cos everything is so sodding expensive.

Mind you, I'm now in the US and have GW and his fascist hordes to worry about now. Now I've lost my job as it was outsourced to India and have now found out unemployment benefits are pitiful.

George Orwell only had it 20 years early
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Old 01-13-2006, 01:08 AM   #27
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Quote: Originally Posted by pip
Mind you, I'm now in the US and have GW and his fascist hordes to worry about now. Now I've lost my job as it was outsourced to India and have now found out unemployment benefits are pitiful.

George Orwell only had it 20 years early

Doesn't look like you've done badly under GW and the US economy (i'm referring to your vette)
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:22 AM   #28
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So you never go over the speed limit . . . . . .

Speaking of this, i read in the papers a few weeks ago the government are thinking of upping the speed limit on motorways from 70 to 80 mph....

Could this be the first and only logical thing the labour government have ever done???!!
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:26 AM   #29
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80 is the minimum that most people will drive at anyway - the only difference is that police will now cruise the inside lane at 79.99mph instead of 69.99mph!!
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:37 AM   #30
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Quote: Originally Posted by Spaghetti
80 is the minimum that most people will drive at anyway - the only difference is that police will now cruise the inside lane at 79.99mph instead of 69.99mph!!


Your so right!!!!
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