Some warnings about Deluo Routis 2004, MapPoint 2004 & XPort

dumpper · 07-05-2004, 08:56 AM

Background: I've been testing both Routis & Mappoint installed in my WinXP laptop (w/ SP2 RC2) & the Rayming TN-200 receiver. My ultimate purpose in this test (could sound crazy to some of you) is hearing the voice instruction in Routis but seeing the map & location in the clear & nice MapPoint. I prefer the street finding feature in Routis than in MapPoint. Also, I would like to be able to switch back & forth between the two applications for cross checking of all the infos on an interested location. Of course, I do aware that Routis & MapPoint are two different software intended for different purposes, but I wish someday there would be just one software combining the best features from these two.

Problems:

1) I've tried Xport (posted somewhere in this forum) & it screwed up my receiver hibernation capability. Now even I no longer run Xport, WinXP won't hibernate (citing there's a problem with the port where the GPS receiver is operating at), unless I unplug the receiver physically & try to hibernate again. I did try re-installing the receiver driver: doesn't help.

2) When I ran Xport with Routis 2004 & MapPoint 2004, the Routis was ok but MapPoint 2004 (with the AGPS plug-in) started to crash miserably (BSOD) for no apparent reason ! MP 2K4 was ok again whenever I run it by itself.

3) I think there's some serious bugs in Routis, since after installing it for a fantastic first few weeks, it began to show me all kinds of weird directions (my worst nightmare in a GPS system), which is VERY DANGEROUS while you're driving, especially at 100+ km/h! For example, one nice day when I was going to a place, it suddenly prompted me to make some illegal U-turns, jumped to a strange exit (with a wrong heading) or instructed me to go to the totally opposite direction, even though the destination address was entered correctly & visited using Routis many times before !

4) In addition, sometimes, Routis positioned me a few street blocks off the correct location !!! I verified that it was definitely not the "GPS wandering" issue or any problem with the receiver, since when I shut Routis down & turned on Mappoint, Mappoint was always showing me the correct location.

5) I have removed Routis completely, including the maps & installed it all over again. It seems to be ok, at least for now ...

Lesson learned: As many have warned, never trust a GPS system completely. Bring yourself a paper map, a magnetic compass & have your eyes checked at least once a year by a good optometrist. The best GPS computer is still the God-given human brain.

[iG] · 07-05-2004, 09:37 AM

I started off with Mappoint and moved on to Routis. The voice and navigation directions are thousands of times better in Routis than agps, so I rarely use mappoint now. But as you mentioned there is a big downside to using programs like Routis, in order to achieve that 'smooth' navigation feel to it, is that it uses software algorithms to predict where you are going based on your speed/direction etc. Often I find myself plotting a route and on my way, (this is especially true for higher speeds such as highways) I take a shortcut that I know off or just to avoid the traffic. Now if the speed is over 90km/h I often find that my 'car' on Routis in fact keeps moving as if I havent exited the highway for another ~5 seconds. Only after that it jumps to my real location and starts to recalculate the route...

I dont trust the 'destination' house number through GPS, it's often very inaccurate. But I do have to admit, that 2/3 times so far it has been dead on. And it's neat! "Destination on the left" - And I'm dead on where I needed to go to. In fact I did a few tests, I often plot courses that I know how to get to and let Routis guide me by voice. Every once in a while I get bogus commands on the highway, but overall it's a decent enough system.

What I would like to see is some sort of map editing tool in the package, so we can adjust the actual numbering and correct it. It's kinda annoying to see my 'house' number always be about 150m down the road...

As for paper map? Naahh

ncamara · 07-05-2004, 08:54 PM

The lag you're experiencing might be the result of how often your GPS updates its info. If you've got a programmable receiver, make sure it's refreshing as often as possible. I've got a Garmin GPS16 and it's set to update once/second.

carpcnoobie · 07-06-2004, 02:49 AM

As for Routis not finding house numbers. That can be very difficult to do as many cities either have a complicated numbering system, or no real system at all. Thus making it impossible for Routis to know. I like to think it gets you close enough to use your brain and your eyes.

dumpper · 07-06-2004, 11:59 AM

Thanks "ncamara", but I'm very sure it's not the GPS receiver, since it does update every second & I was able to confirm my correct location by just shutting down the buggy Routis & fireup the MapPoint feeding data from the same COM port. Just another speculation that Xport might have screwing up Routis' response to the port detection - just a theory ...

Even though the functionality is great, I always find vector maps such as Routis are a little "dry" & too "abstract"-looking compared with feature-riched bitmaps in Mappoint, even though Mappoint doesn't have the bells & whistles of "3D View", "Map Heading & Auto Rotation" or "NMEA sentence display" like Routis. You can tell how wide the roads are in MapPoint while in Routis, streets are represented by grids of similar lines differed only by color.

I'm quite pleased with the house-number-range display in Routis. MapPoint does has all the data but it needs to show them out, loud & big !

I, too, was first so impressed with the voice feature in Routis, but after many times it started to fail me with all the wrong directions running amok, I will be more careful from now on (after the recent re-installation). By the way, Routis 2004 is just a "version 1.0" software or so from the company, so more improvements will still be needed. If having to make a critical decision (ie. guiding a cruise missile!) I'd prefer MapPoint than Routis. Unless, the Routis 2005/2006 proves me wrong !

CorollaVerso'04 · 07-06-2004, 02:12 PM

i've heard a rumor that since 9/11 GPS software has a build in 'location-shift' to prevent 'people' from using it for the wrong purpose.
If you would use older versions of the software (prior to 9/11) than they are much more accurate. This in combination with the refresh rate earlier mentioned...

Although I don't know if this rumor is true...

The Grinch · 07-06-2004, 09:19 PM

Don't scare me like that Corolla. I just ordered the Delou Navigation kit yesterday.

dumpper · 07-07-2004, 11:37 AM

I suspect the rumor could be true (despite the WAAS capability!), since when I'm driving near certain tall buildings in the downtowns of some Northeastern American cities, my GPS pointer suddenly jumps off a few blocks away, as if there's an invisible force at work to "repel/dispel" its accuracy ... Especially those financial & government buildings even though the sky openning above my head is wide & clear ... What I'm describing is more to do with the receiver end rather than the software end as Corolla mentioned.

I personally don't think that changing the GPS accuracy in certain areas would work though, since you can program a smart missile to reach a known location, ie. a nearby coordinate without any jamming/interference, near the target & change the bearing from that point to reach the destination. The terrorists must be dumb & lazy for not calculating this ... This is actually creating more hassles for us the GPS users than protecting national security ...

b_nom · 07-07-2004, 12:06 PM

From the coast guard website:
Selective Availability has been set to ZERO
Also check this FAQ from the good folks at the FAA.
Especially this one that says:
"It is not the intent of the U.S. to ever use SA again. To ensure that potential adversaries to do not use GPS, the military is dedicated to the development and deployment of regional denial capabilities in lieu of global degradation through SA" so maybe, just maybe this is right, but I seriously doubt it.

MrSpace · 07-07-2004, 01:43 PM

They will upgrade routis (which is the same as iGuidance and another one that I can recall the name)

The v2 is WAY better than the previous version, at least it has colours...

The main problem is that it recalculates a route way too often, it should have a late recalculation option, since in anyways, there is often a lot of distance between exits, it could wait a little before doing a new route. Since sometimes when in complex overpasses the programs is fooled into thinking you took teh wrong route.

Check www.gpspassion.com it have ALL the information you need concerning gpa software and hardware for your pocketpc or notebook or carputer.

Etienne

jpelzer · 07-07-2004, 04:04 PM

Yeah, the real package name is Intellinav (iGuidance, PrymeNav, Routis) v2. Here's a review:

http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=100

I'll definitely be buying v2... I love v1, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't have the ability to mark roads as 'avoid' due to closure, construction, etc. That was a MAJOR pain for me last weekend, let me tell you! But v2 has it. Yay.

v2 of iGuidance started shipping June 25: http://www.inavcorp.com/products/iguidance2.html

And regarding the GPS accuracy, it's more likely that your GPS receiver has: A) an obstructed view of the sky B) A view of the sky above at a time when most satellites are at lower positions in the sky C) Difficulty reading signals with multipath interference as generated by buildings close to the receiving antenna.

The localized interference as I understand it is more like jamming: ie no signal lock, rather than intentional misrepresentation of location... Probably more to do with your receiver... I'm sure different receivers have different tolerances before they decide their lock is lost.

dumpper · 07-09-2004, 03:02 PM

Dear "jpelzer":

Thanks for your info, but I already stressed many times in my posts that if it were the receiver's problem, how come the location is displayed correctly when I shut off Routis & switched to MapPoint immediately ??? Both software receive the same data from the same receiver, only that Routis was going whacked off while MapPoint was displaying the right location.

Other than that, if you're refering to my post about the GPS pointer suddenly jumps off a few blocks away in the midst of highrise buildings then please, forgive my ignorance !

(couldn't agree more with you!)

GPS Passion is a great site that I've been frequent with, even though sometimes it's becoming too "passionate" for the logical & calculative GPS issues. (j/k)

jpelzer · 07-14-2004, 11:51 PM

Yah, I was referring to the post where people were wondering if GPS was being degraded around tall buildings by "the man"... Regarding your Routis problem, I have NO idea, since you say that MapPoint displays your position accurately. Maybe you should try one of the apps that doesn't lock your position to a street and see how much your position jumps, if at all. Actually, I think you can turn that option off in both Routis and MapPoint, just for kicks...

mobileh1 · 07-15-2004, 12:07 AM

You lost signal due to the buildings, or maybe that black helicopter just above and behind you was blocking it...

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpper

I suspect the rumor could be true (despite the WAAS capability!), since when I'm driving near certain tall buildings in the downtowns of some Northeastern American cities, my GPS pointer suddenly jumps off a few blocks away, as if there's an invisible force at work to "repel/dispel" its accuracy ... Especially those financial & government buildings even though the sky openning above my head is wide & clear ... What I'm describing is more to do with the receiver end rather than the software end as Corolla mentioned.

I personally don't think that changing the GPS accuracy in certain areas would work though, since you can program a smart missile to reach a known location, ie. a nearby coordinate without any jamming/interference, near the target & change the bearing from that point to reach the destination. The terrorists must be dumb & lazy for not calculating this ... This is actually creating more hassles for us the GPS users than protecting national security ...