GPS Recording?

96TransAm · 08-28-2006, 03:33 PM

Is there a GPS program that will record every 'step' you make? I live in a town that is notorious for the cops making up speeding citations. I would like to setup my GPS to record my speed and location so I have some evidence in court that I wasn't speeding. Anyone know how I can do this?

Wiredwrx · 08-28-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 96TransAm

Is there a GPS program that will record every 'step' you make? I live in a town that is notorious for the cops making up speeding citations. I would like to setup my GPS to record my speed and location so I have some evidence in court take time I wasn't speeding. Anyone know how I can do this?

IG allows you to record your GPS. I think most programs will allow it. Now, proving that the track relates to the time you were pulled over (I do not believe they are time stamped, and better yet, the judge may believe that you could alter the information) will be a big problem.
How do they make it up? Don't they radar you?

Michael

KaBoOoM · 08-28-2006, 04:02 PM

That probably wouln't be admissible in court. Way to easy to modify, and a cops word will always be taken over a civilians.

And Wired, even if they do/don't radar you I don't think it is recorded onto a computer and time stamped, so it is based on the cops word. I may be wrong though.

Rob Withey · 08-28-2006, 04:08 PM

nmea streams include time stamps. I record them on my system as a matter of course.

For example:

$GPGGA,165111.500,5151.3833,N,00025.5275,W,1,07,1.2,203.2,M,47.1,M, 0.0,0000*6A
$GPRMC,165111.500,A,5151.3833,N,00025.5275,W,34.02,148.03,230406,,*26
$GPVTG,148.03,T,,M,34.02,N,63.0,K*6E

Bold sections are time and date stamps. Easy to modify though.

Wiredwrx · 08-28-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by KaBoOoM

And Wired, even if they do/don't radar you I don't think it is recorded onto a computer and time stamped, so it is based on the cops word. I may be wrong though.

Depending on the law, and where he is, he can ask to see the radar gun, and take a picture of it with a cheap disposable camera he has.

He then shows that in court. It isn't often that someone will be able to take a picture of the radar gun, except when pulled over, and when he asks the officer to see the radar gun readout. If the stop is bogus, there is NO WAY for the officer to fake a reading, well, at least not very easily. Certainly, the first or second time it happens, the cop won't have a bogus reading to show.

Not foolproof, but a much better idea then a GPS report.

Michael

Wiredwrx · 08-28-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Withey

nmea streams include time stamps. I record them on my system as a matter of course.

For example:

$GPGGA,165111.500,5151.3833,N,00025.5275,W,1,07,1.2,203.2,M,47.1,M, 0.0,0000*6A
$GPRMC,165111.500,A,5151.3833,N,00025.5275,W,34.02,148.03,230406,,*26
$GPVTG,148.03,T,,M,34.02,N,63.0,K*6E

Bold sections are time and date stamps. Easy to modify though.

Yes, but explaining the NMEA data to a non technical Judge will be difficult at best, and like you said, easily modified.

Michael

Rob Withey · 08-28-2006, 04:14 PM

Totally agree.

Was just pointing out that they are time stamped since you said you didn't believe they were.

v8 scimitar · 08-28-2006, 04:17 PM

I know your in the states but for anyone in the uk this wont work, I tried it. The court will not take a GPS reading as any proof as it isn't certified to be accurate. To be honest when I checked as best as I could the accuracy it was no more accurate than the car speedo but worse as it was slow where the speedo is fast. This meant that I probably was speeding

Wiredwrx · 08-28-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Withey

Totally agree.

Was just pointing out that they are time stamped since you said you didn't believe they were.

Thanks for setting me straight on the actual NMEA data.

Michael

96TransAm · 08-28-2006, 06:03 PM

I agree it woudn't be hard evidence...but neither is the officers word. This is a small town and I'm sure the judge would allow it, as he has taken my word over the corrupted cops on several ocasions.

The cops simply say they clocked you at xx and deny you access to see the radar telling you it's unsafe to let you out of the car.

2k1Toaster · 08-28-2006, 06:18 PM

I too have thought about this, and I know it is easy to manipulate and all, but there have to be checks somewhere right?

I don't know really anything about NMEA protocols and such, but when you start tracking a satellite, does it has to have some unique ID to validate it as the satellite you want right? So therefore, if you made a program that gave you all the info and the 3+ satellites that gave you that info, wouldn't that be more reliable?

Maybe something that is hashed with the system time so if you were to try and edit it after the fact, the time would have changed, therefore the hash value too.

Just guessing. The cops around here are evil in a can.

Wiredwrx · 08-28-2006, 06:58 PM

This is the second time today I have heard horror stories abiout TX cops.

Unfortunately, the cops in your area need to be broiught back down to reality and the law. Unfortunately, you and some friends might have to work at it a little. First, you should look into wether TX is a one party or two party recording state. Then, in accordance with the law, record the conversation when you get stopped.

Ask to see the radar gun. If he refuses, ask why. If he says it is dangerous, ask him to state WHY it is dangerous. I would do all I could when I get pulled over to make the stop as safe as possoble. Pull into a parking lot where there is little chance of getting hit by a car. If he still refuses, ask the officer, who is out of his car anyway, when he comes over to get your license and registration, ask him to take your camera and snap a picture of the radar gun, this way he doesn't have to make an extra trip back to your car. You can even tell him that you will provide him a copy of the picture, to use as evidence AGAINST you if the picture shows a number above the speed limit. Of course, if you are safely parked in a parking lot that should not be an issue. If he refuses, like I said, ask him to state why it is not possible to take a picture of the gun if you give him the camera. . There aslo is probably a state law that says he has to show it to you, which might help you fight the ticket if he refuses all your attempts to get a picture/see the radar gun. You should look into the laws in your state.

Try to somehow indicate where you stopped. This might actually mean subpaena-ing the recording of the 2 way communications recording, or perhaps the officers body microphone ( in LA, all traffic officers record the conversation you have with them when they pull you over). If you must, take a picture of the officers car behind your, with an address or street sign, or cross street in the background, then do so. You may need to get a bunch of your friends to do this also when they get stopped. You need this to prove that the area was safe for you to see the radar unit, and if he refused, that there must be some reason why he didn't want you to see it.

The more they lose, the less likely they will issue bogus tickets. Also, if you collect some good evidence, you can go to the local newspaper or TV to do a story. Also, illegal car stops are a violation of you civil rights. Done enough times, and with enough proof, you can file a suite against the police shief and the town for violating your rights. There are rich organi*tions which might help you with that. Also, the FBI (and maybe even the TX rangers) will investigate these abuses.

Try not to act defensless. You need to learn your rights, and do what you can to protect them.

Michael

KaBoOoM · 08-28-2006, 07:06 PM

Although a cops word isn't hard evidence, like I said, why would a judge ever take your word over a cops? And like another said getting a judge that knows what the hell you are presenting to him would be a problem, might work for you since he wouldn't know it was easily modified.

Wired's ideas are your best route.

96TransAm · 08-28-2006, 07:07 PM

I was just ticketed for a 50 in a 35, it was a 45 mph zone and I was doing about 50. I requested the video from the patrol car, which has the bodymic streamed in, but was given the run around saying I needed to contact the courthouse, and the court house told me to contact the police station. After giving up on that, I was pulled over again by the same officer claiming I was doing 70 in a 35 (I was doing about 30) He then smiled and told me to have a good day. My guess is someone told him I was trying to get the tape and he didn't like that.

96TransAm · 08-28-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by KaBoOoM

Although a cops word isn't hard evidence, like I said, why would a judge ever take your word over a cops? And like another said getting a judge that knows what the hell you are presenting to him would be a problem, might work for you since he wouldn't know it was easily modified.

Wired's ideas are your best route.

Yes, the county judge has sided with me everytime like I said...it's the city judge I'm afraid of.

I have fought many citations in court, and have rarley seen a bias judge. They usually really care to set things right. Sometimes they will let you plead to a non traffic fine...so you don't get points, and they still get money.