Renault "Tuner List" Head Unit/CD changer hacking - Controls - Page 26

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 05:42 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by slimmegane

Ok, I will try now

Yesterday I've test the system and I've see when HU go OFF while the PC sound it continue to sound, this is a good work for me, because the HU is OFF but the sound is still ON

and this is good for my battery.

But when I power on HU the CDC don't appear in Source List. I must close TLCEmu and re-run.

This is only a report of my test, this isn't a criticism!

You are right.

I'm going to reset the emulator once the HU is off, so that on HU restart, it begins the handshake again.

PS : So, does the RR control work in the end :-) ?

slimmegane · 03-12-2006, 08:38 AM

Hi Vicne,
Today I've some trouble whit my car, I've wrong the PC powed on all night and the battery say Bye bye!
I've try only now, and all OK!!!! Great Vicne! you're the best renault hacker of all history!

hehehehe

The next and previous track work fine, only a detail, when I press next the sound go off for a little time (1/2 sec) after return and then change track, it is only a detail, all ok !

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by slimmegane

Hi Vicne,
Today I've some trouble whit my car, I've wrong the PC powed on all night and the battery say Bye bye!

Not good :-(
Don't you have an "intelligent" PSU ?

Quote:

I've try only now, and all OK!!!! Great Vicne! you're the best renault hacker of all history!

hehehehe

The next and previous track work fine, only a detail, when I press next the sound go off for a little time (1/2 sec) after return and then change track, it is only a detail, all ok !

Yes, that's also known :-) :

Quote: Originally Posted by vicne

The result is that SPDIF is muted during a half a second or so. Annoying if you want to repurpose NEXT/PREV:-(. I'll try and see if I can get rid of the muting, or at least reduce it by removing some messages.

I'm waiting for Mox's input to know if he has the same with the connects2. If so, I'm afraid it's a feature of the HU to mute sound as soon as NEXT/PREV is pressed and wait for the CDC to say when it's ready.
The problem is that it's a Fade out/Fade in, so even if I reply immediately that I'm ready, the off/on will be heard :-(
And I fear in this case that it'll be the same with CD changes.
OTOH, maybe we could try to trick the HU by replying with other messages than the original CDC or not acknowledging this command or something. I'll have to fiddle around with that but I want first to be feature-complete.

slimmegane · 03-12-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Not good :-(
Don't you have an "intelligent" PSU ?

Yes, I've the "Intelligent" M1ATX but I've a "Stupid" cabling and setting

Now will remade all, I've sell the Amplifier thanks to your hack!

pippolippi · 03-12-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

You are right.

I'm going to reset the emulator once the HU is off, so that on HU restart, it begins the handshake again.

Yes, it's working perfectly here this way (and that's how I found about code 93)

pippolippi · 03-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

I'm waiting for Mox's input to know if he has the same with the connects2. If so, I'm afraid it's a feature of the HU to mute sound as soon as NEXT/PREV is pressed and wait for the CDC to say when it's ready.

Mmmh, since I don't have an spdif output available (yet) I cannot test this, however I'm just sending continuosly the fake "I'm playing" message (only changing the track number when I receive a next/previous track) and the HU is reacting ok (seemingly).
One thing to keep in mind is that the "random on" function cannot be actually used as an extra key, since the random condition is stored by the HU and sent to the CDC as it turns on (along with a "next track", so that a "next track" right after "random on" has to be filtered out by the emulator, unless you want to use it to actually play random music).

mox · 03-12-2006, 03:47 PM

Oops, sorry for not paying enough attention...

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

I'm waiting for Mox's input to know if he has the same with the connects2. If so, I'm afraid it's a feature of the HU to mute sound as soon as NEXT/PREV is pressed and wait for the CDC to say when it's ready.
The problem is that it's a Fade out/Fade in, so even if I reply immediately that I'm ready, the off/on will be heard :-(
And I fear in this case that it'll be the same with CD changes.

I've just returned from my garage and I can hereby confirm that the connects2 mutes the HU for about half a second too, not only during NEXT/PREV, but also when issuing a CD change command (either by pressing 1..6 on the HU or by using stalk control). I guess it is indeed an unavoidable "feature".

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by pippolippi

One thing to keep in mind is that the "random on" function cannot be actually used as an extra key, since the random condition is stored by the HU and sent to the CDC as it turns on (along with a "next track", so that a "next track" right after "random on" has to be filtered out by the emulator, unless you want to use it to actually play random music).

I do ! :-)
When loading a 10 000 track playlist, I like to some randomness, so I'm clearly intending to use it.
However, according to my logs, the random status is sent *by the CDC to the HU* as it turns on, so it's a data we have control on at startup at least.
Now it's true that if you use it for another purpose than shuffle play, the NEXT which follows RANDOM ON has to be filtered out indeed. I think I'll filter it in all cases.

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mox

I've just returned from my garage and I can hereby confirm that the connects2 mutes the HU for about half a second too, not only during NEXT/PREV, but also when issuing a CD change command (either by pressing 1..6 on the HU or by using stalk control). I guess it is indeed an unavoidable "feature".

Yes, that's what I feared. I even wouldn't be surprised if the fade-out was done before the NEXT is sent to the CDC... In that case, it isn't even worth trying to send weird answers (such as not acknowledging) as it'll be "too late" anyway...
Sad :-(

pippolippi · 03-12-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

However, according to my logs, the random status is sent *by the CDC to the HU* as it turns on, so it's a data we have control on at startup at least.

Well, I don't have a cdc and I'm just tracking what the HU is sending, and it's sending random on & next track when turned on (now I don't remember if it does the same when the emulator is started when the hu is already on but I think so.)
You should try my program one day

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by pippolippi

Well, I don't have a cdc and I'm just tracking what the HU is sending, and it's sending random on & next track when turned on (now I don't remember if it does the same when the emulator is started when the hu is already on but I think so.)

That's strange. I never observed that. See in the rosetta_stone xls file : I'm only getting 3 messages on HU start :
HU_ON (93h)
REQ_CD_INFO (86h)
START_PLAY (13h)

Maybe (just guessing) the fact that you don't execute the exact same boot sequence as the CDC lets the HU in its default mode, which would be to start playing in RANDOM ?
As far as I can tell :
- you send frames with IDs 11h, 25h, 26h, 25h and 20h
- the original CDC sends frames with IDs 11h, 11h, 15h, 20h, 25h, 26h, 25h, 20h, 46h, 21h, 20h, 20h, 21h and 20h

There may also be a sync problem as frame CD_SUMMARY (46h) seems to be the reply to frame REQ_CD_INFO (86h), so maybe it has to come after it...

Quote:

You should try my program one day

I will.
You should try mine too

Vicne · 03-12-2006, 07:19 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, the wait is over : Version 0.3 of the Java version is released and I'd call it "feature complete" :-) :

- It contains the new Executor plugin released as beta a few days ago, which allows to start external programs upon HU events
- It also contains a brand new RRPlugin to directly send commands to RoadRunner in response to HU events, without launching RR's external exec.exe. The sample configuration executes NEXT/PREV/PLAY/PAUSE normally, but also switches to the Audio panel with button 1, GPS panel with button 2 and back to main RR panel with other buttons.
- As a bonus, this RRPlugin also gets the track number (playlist position to be precise) from Winamp and sends it back to the dashboard display :-). Me say this rocks :-)
- CD change buttons are now handled correctly.
- In case HU is turned off, the emulator "resets" itself to restart handshake from scratch upon next start of HU
- New events are generated for "HU turned On / HU turned Off" (thanks Pippolippi for the 93h = HU_ON tip)
- Fixed levels are provided on RTS and DTR lines, to be compatible with the optocoupler adapter designed and used by Pippolippi

Installation :
Please refer to the howto page. In brief :
- if you've never installed a version, it's simpler than before as I've bundled the RxTx library in the binary zip (with agreement of the author)
- if you already have a version, you must copy the new rrinterface.dll to the PATH the same way you did with rxtxSerial.dll. If you like, you can get rid of exec.exe now as it's much less efficient than using the RRPlugin.

Known issue :
The sound is muted for approx. half a second each time you press NEXT/PREV or a CD number. Unfortunately, this seems inherent to the HU conception and I'm afraid we won't find a workaround...

It's on http://tlcdcemu.sourceforge.net. I hope you'll enjoy this release !

Have a nice day !

Vicne

PS1 : I also uploaded Pippolippi's Python version to the Sourceforge files repository, under the package name "tlcdcpy".

PS2 : Finally, I also revamped the website to include hardware schematics, a mini howto for the Python version (Pippolippi, you tell me if it's ok ?) and information on plugins for the Java version

PS3 : The next thing I'm going to do is build a "router" plugin which will associate a different action to the same button depending on the context you're in.

pippolippi · 03-13-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Maybe (just guessing) the fact that you don't execute the exact same boot sequence as the CDC lets the HU in its default mode, which would be to start playing in RANDOM ?

Maybe, I don't know and, frankly, I don't care: since the aim (for me) is to just fool the HU into thinking that there's a cdc there and to grab the commands sent by the HU in order to reuse them, and knowing that's impossible to show anything more than the track number/cd number on the display, this is the simplest thing to do: just send the "boot" sequence (and that's enough to fool the HU) and then continuosly send a "I'm playing" frame.
That's enough (I think) for everything to work.
You only have to take care of, e.g., filtering the "Next track" right after the "Random on", and keep in mind that the "Random on" will be sent by the HU each time it is turned on, that's all.
Of course if we find that there's a way to coax the HU to display arbitrary text I'll revise my opinion

but for the time being I think that "simpler is better" (on the same principle I'll see if I can simplify further the optocoupler interface, I think that I can do away with at least the transistor from the HU).

EDIT: note that "Random" is not actually the default mode, but it is stored by the HU: I can turn remote mode on or off and the mode is shown on the display.

Quote:

You should try mine too

Not to be rude, but I think it's overkill for my simple needs (which I haven't really defined yet

).
Besides, if I don't solve the problems with my inverter (that manifest themselves even with nothing connected, and if noise causes the serial port to be disabled and reenabled, it would probably do the same with an usb/spdif adapter, I'll try with a memory stick to see if it does the same) I doubt I'll be able to put any of this into practical use

Not that I had any practical use in mind

: for short trips I don't need the inverter, but then I wouldn't go to the hassle of turning-on and connecting the laptop, and for longer trips I could really use the laptop, but then I would need the inverter, and I don't do such trips more than twice a year anyway.
I enjoy the challenge anyway

pippolippi · 03-13-2006, 04:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

PS2 : Finally, I also revamped the website to include hardware schematics, a mini howto for the Python version (Pippolippi, you tell me if it's ok ?)

Yes, that's ok, there's nothing more to it.
The python version was just meant for quick testing and/or easy customization (of course you need to grok python for the latter

)

Vicne · 03-13-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by pippolippi

for the time being I think that "simpler is better" (on the same principle I'll see if I can simplify further the optocoupler interface, I think that I can do away with at least the transistor from the HU).

I completely understand your goal and your implementation fulfills it perfectly indeed.

Quote:

Besides, if I don't solve the problems with my inverter (that manifest themselves even with nothing connected, and if noise causes the serial port to be disabled and reenabled, it would probably do the same with an usb/spdif adapter, I'll try with a memory stick to see if it does the same) I doubt I'll can put any of this into practical use

It's weird, I never heard of this kind of problem although many people use an inverter I think. Could it be due to a defective serial adapter ? Well, the memory stick test might help indeed...
Also, don't you think of using a DC/DC converter (car adapter for your laptop) instead of the inverter which probably introduces lots noise due to hashing ? OTOH, they're often rather expensive...

Quote:

I enjoy the challenge anyway

I see :-)

Have a nice day