Renault "Tuner List" Head Unit/CD changer hacking - Controls - Page 29

slimmegane · 03-16-2006, 09:01 AM

Hi all,
@vicne, finally I've try the last version of the Emulator, it works very fine! I've only noted that for example when I change more track 20-30 for example, the display visualize strange track number, for example:
I play track 35, press next to go to track 36 the display says 23, after 1/2sec 35 after 1/2 sec 36. If I change album and re-start from track 1 all ok, but when play track 30 etc the problem appears.
What do you think? Is a buffer problem? Is Java more slow?
soo I've note that the track don't change in sequence some time I press one time but RR change 2 tracks, and the logs of Emu is full of "Double frame, Ignoring frame" or similar.
Do you want to test some other?
Byez

Vicne · 03-16-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

You have reason I not have pubblished my work, but I have implemented a dummy interface with 16f84 (with only max232) that enable the CDC emulator and after the success

Wow, you already have a working PIC implementation ?
I'd be glad if you could make it public somewhere so that I can point people to it. I know several people would like to activate SPDIF IN only to connect a mp3-capable DVD player with SPDIF OUT, for example...

Quote:

I have asked my self now? the SPDIF audio? then I'm searching
new way to encoding/converting/emulating the SPDIF audio, for example using old standalone mp3 player but for now no good news.
Also work with Yampp3/USB (www.yampp.com) but the same problem SPDIF Source?

Well, I think many people would be happy with something like a combination of 5331AKS and a CS8405A, like the Connects2... But I know you're much more in the mp3 decoder field :-)

Quote:

Well, we could bypass the head unit and try to connect directly to the display, but this is a completely different project

I'm interessed too.
New thread discussion?

Why not ? But I'm afraid I won't be of any help...
All I have for now is the pinout of the yellow connector to the "central control unit" at the back of the HU, but it looks like a synchronous bus connection (CLK / DTA / IRQ), so I definitely don't have the hardware to connect to it. However, here there's no need for a CDC so anybody with a Renault can start hacking...
The other way would be to connect between the "central control unit" and the display, but the display is different if you have a Carminat GPS option, while the yellow connector seems the common part of all setups, so it would probably be more universal...

Quote:

Anyway other solution in my mind is the follow (any suggestions are aprreciated):

MP3 Player based on:

ATMEL128L,MAX3587S(mp3 decoder with spdif output), USB Controller (MASTER mode ) and some LCD (like Nokia color/grayscale).
The decoder that I'm using now doesn't support the Digital output (VS10XX more info www.vlsi.fi).
So you can put your usb key in the mp3 player and listen the music in a car.

I see, I see :-)

Definitely not my way, but put an ad for that on planeterenault forums and I bet you'll find tens of interested people in a few hours :-)

Vicne · 03-16-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

What do you think about a frame that when sent to HU switch,it changes the audio input signal from the SPDIF to Analog?

Not sure I understand what you mean...
Are you looking for a frame that would be sent by the HU to the emulator, that would instruct it to activate an analog converter or something ?

peppuz79 · 03-16-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Wow, you already have a working PIC implementation ?
I'd be glad if you could make it public somewhere so that I can point people to it. I know several people would like to activate SPDIF IN only to connect a mp3-capable DVD player with SPDIF OUT, for example...

Sorry, I actually never thought about it, give me some days and will publish a piggy version(I do only piggy version :-)).

pep

Vicne · 03-16-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by slimmegane

Hi all,
@vicne, finally I've try the last version of the Emulator, it works very fine! I've only noted that for example when I change more track 20-30 for example, the display visualize strange track number, for example:
I play track 35, press next to go to track 36 the display says 23, after 1/2sec 35 after 1/2 sec 36. If I change album and re-start from track 1 all ok, but when play track 30 etc the problem appears.
What do you think? Is a buffer problem? Is Java more slow?

Mmmh, that's strange. Can you make sure you don't have the LogicalPlugin still active ? This plugin changes the values of the track number on its own, and the RRPlugin also changes them, so they may overwrite each one's values. Normally, the configuration I suggest now is disable all plugins except RRPlugin. You can also leave the GUIPlugin activated if you like to have feedback, but it only slows down the startup...
I admit I still haven't tested with more than 12 or 13 tracks in the playlist... I am building a hardware interface these nights to be able to use the actual car PC and not the hybrid setup I had until now (I currently tested with serial port from desktop PC and SPDIF from carPC).
Tell me if it still happens with only RRPlugin, ok ?

Quote:

soo I've note that the track don't change in sequence some time I press one time but RR change 2 tracks, and the logs of Emu is full of "Double frame, Ignoring frame" or similar.

Yes, that's weird, that's exactly what we discussed with Pippolippi : the HU sometimes sends the same frame multiple times.
Each time I'm getting the same frame ID twice, I discard the second frame and print it on the console.
The symptom you describe may be due to 2 things :
- I don't discard some duplicates correctly, although I see no error in this file (search for "duplicates").
- The HU retries more and more - so I'm still thinking of a perf problem even at 9600 bps - up to the point where it increments the frame ID (the CDC logs I had when I blocked the returning acknowledges showed that the same frame was retried 3 times, and then the frame ID was incremented...). Of course, if the same message is sent with 2 different frame IDs, it's considered to be 2 distinct messages.
Can you describe your hardware a bit (CPU speed, RAM) ?

I'll also see if I can reproduce this on the Epia (1GHz, 256 Mb) which is more loaded than my desktop PC (1GHz, 512 Mb), and if so, I'll try again with the serial library from Sun, because I don't remember having seen that before I switched to RxTx...

If you have the log as a file (*), I'd be interested to take a look at it to see how many times the same ID is retried...

Vicne

(*) If you don't log to a file, you can do so by editing the bat file and adding " 2> cdcerrlog.txt" (without the quotes) at the end of the line beginning with java...

peppuz79 · 03-16-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Not sure I understand what you mean...
Are you looking for a frame that would be sent by the HU to the emulator, that would instruct it to activate an analog converter or something ?

Yes.
But it's only an idea generated from my desperation to spdif signal...

peo

Vicne · 03-16-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

Sorry, I actually never thought about it, give me some days and will publish a piggy version(I do only piggy version :-)).

No problem. Any information is welcome. If you want, I'd be glad to host it on the SourceForge space of the project...

Vicne · 03-16-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

Yes.
But it's only an idea generated from my desperation to spdif signal...

:-( I see.
Honestly, I don't believe recent models include an analog input at all. I guess VDO wouldn't build dual analog/digital output CDC models if it was the case...
I'm bad in electronics, but just seeing the data sheets, the 5331AKS + CS8405A combination doesn't seem particularly complex, just that it's SMD :-(

FroMage · 03-17-2006, 04:02 AM

Hi, Thanks for all the info.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

- Not yet : currently, the only implementations we achieved imply the use of a PC to send serial commands. The hardware part currently is a simple pass-through with level conversion. Several people here have indicated interest in developing a pic-based version of the emulator though, which means a PC wouldn't be needed anymore.

OK, I see now that there are other people working on a PIC version, we found an ATMEL with 2 UARTS so we'll probably try to bridge the serial ports between the HU and the iPod. I'm hoping it won't be too much trouble since both communication protocols have been documented (so much thanks!).

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

- No : Nothing more than "track number / cd number" can be displayed as far as we know. This seems to be a limitation of the head unit, because even with CDText-capable CD changers or mp3-compatible CD changers, nothing more than track #/cd # is displayed... (Well, we could bypass the head unit and try to connect directly to the display, but this is a completely different project)

This is plain silly since all LCDs (either built-in the HU or detached) from Renault HU support printing the radio names, so if VDO didn't include a special command to print the track name they're plain silly (which would not surprise me, mind you). But I guess I can live with track numbers, not that it means much in an MP3 world with thousands of tracks...

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

- Sort of : AFAIK (but I might be wrong) Analog to SPDIF converters can be found easily, but they are often targeted at pros, and are neither cheap not easy to power and connect in the dashboard, so not really suitable here...

I hope it won't be so expensive, but we'll report any progress we have on that front

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Well, in brief, you have 3 choices :
- you sell you Ipod and go the carPC way :-) Via Epia motherboards have both the Serial port and SPDIF out...

I'd love to, but I find the idea of having one portable harddisk with all my mp3s is more handy.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

- you are very good in electronics and want to design and build a hardware interface(*)

I'm afraid that what I have in mind, I have a friend who's good in electronics

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

- you are looking for the easy solution : an existing Adapter such as the one from Connects2. It should be checked if it forwards commands to the Ipod though...

I'm hoping to build something like that, only cheaper.
Btw, for people who have this device, does it relay commands from the HU and remote (pause, etc) ?

Vicne · 03-17-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by FroMage

Btw, for people who have this device, does it relay commands from the HU and remote (pause, etc) ?

I don't know anybody who has bought the IPod version. I know Mox has the "Aux-In" version.
Logically, I'd say if they sell different devices, they have different features, I hope, but it might well be a matter of connectors. This can for sure be verified by contacting the company or a reseller...

slimmegane · 03-18-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Mmmh, that's strange. Can you make sure you don't have the LogicalPlugin still active ? This plugin changes the values of the track number on its own, and the RRPlugin also changes them, so they may overwrite each one's values. Normally, the configuration I suggest now is disable all plugins except RRPlugin. You can also leave the GUIPlugin activated if you like to have feedback, but it only slows down the startup...
I admit I still haven't tested with more than 12 or 13 tracks in the playlist... I am building a hardware interface these nights to be able to use the actual car PC and not the hybrid setup I had until now (I currently tested with serial port from desktop PC and SPDIF from carPC).
Tell me if it still happens with only RRPlugin, ok ?

Hi Vicne,
I've check the plugin config, I've activate only RR plugin and deactive the Guiplugin, the problem is still present in a track list whit more songs, after 16 track the display indicate 10 then 17.

bye.

Vicne · 03-18-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by slimmegane

Hi Vicne,
I've check the plugin config, I've activate only RR plugin and deactive the Guiplugin, the problem is still present in a track list whit more songs, after 16 track the display indicate 10 then 17.

OK. I'll have a look.
Among other things, I'm currently rebuilding the definitive hardware so I cannot test anything right now. Hopefully tomorrow.
10 instead of 17 after 16 makes me think of a BCD/hex problem maybe, or it could also be that the HU tries to anticipate the next track's number as soon as you press the button, and it "guesses wrong" (because of fake data it was given on startup maybe).
It will be much easier to diagnose once my setup is complete.
Thanks for the bug report

Vicne · 03-18-2006, 03:27 PM

I rewired the circuit in spy mode for a last time to perform a few tests I had forgotten, and I formated the results at the end of the rosetta_stone.xls document - attached.
To avoid clash between sessions, I slipped the new sessions by adding 1000 seconds to the capture time, so you'll find new data at 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 seconds.
I also removed the second sheet containing the protocol decoding in itself. Please refer to the following page on the SourceForge site for up-to-date version - just updated btw.

Vicne · 03-18-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by pippolippi

Well, I don't have a cdc and I'm just tracking what the HU is sending, and it's sending random on & next track when turned on (now I don't remember if it does the same when the emulator is started when the hu is already on but I think so.)

One of the tests I performed (included in the new rosetta stone above) is "what does the HU send upon startup when it was turned off in random mode" ? (compare sequences starting at time 2015,00 and 2060,00 in the file)
Well, the conclusion is that in my case, it sends nothing more than in "non-random" more. Only the CDC sends the information about the random status. Moreover, the HU doesn't send a "NEXT". That conforms to its usual behaviour : upon HU restart, the CD starts in the exact state it was upon shutdown, that is same CD, same track, same playing time.

So I don't know what is different with your setup...

pippolippi · 03-19-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

So I don't know what is different with your setup...

I don't know either, probably the startup sequence is different since I don't try to completely emulate the cdc.

I send:

Code:

  def startPacket(self):
     """Tries to send the initial packet"""
     time.sleep(0.5)
     self.flushInput()
     self._sendsequence=0
     self._recsequence=0
     if self.sendPacket('\x11\x60\x06'):
          self.sendPacket('\x25\x03')
          self.sendPacket('\x26\x05\x01\xFC\xFC')
          self.sendPacket('\x25\x03')
          if self.sendPacket('\x20\x01\x03\x09\x05\x01'):
              return True
     return False

nothing more and nothing less, then I enter a loop where I send

Code:

  def fakePlaying(self):
     """Sends a fake I'm playing packet"""
     return self.sendPacket('\x47%s\0x01\0x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00' % bcd(self._track))

The HU will send "random on"+"next track" if it was in random mode.