Renault "Tuner List" Head Unit/CD changer hacking - Controls - Page 8

Putput · 02-16-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

This was included in my first logs (2x eject/reinsert cycles, one letting the changer check everything before switching source to CDC, one trying to switch to CDC immediately, in which case it displays CD CHECK while it loads CDs in turn. Tell me if you meant something else.

Sorry looked over it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

You mean, what if the CD changer is powered on while head unit is already on ? The good question being if CD changer presence is checked on every HU boot or at regular interval. In the second case, it would mean having to power the HU OFF/ON once PC is booted up :-( - or going the PIC way as Mox first suggested.
I think I'll try first to let my "spy pass-through" plugged into the HU only, without the CD changer connected, and see what comes from the HU (hopefully something like CristianC saw) then plug the CDC while HU is on (hope it won't fry anything) and see what happens.
The only one thing we won't be able to do without a PIC is let the HU source on "CD changer" forever. On my current setup, it's the case: when I start the car in the morning, control wires make the HU think the CD changer will start playing, then during PC boot I hear nothing (no SPDIF signal) and once it's booted, music starts.
[Well, actually, in my case, that will be possible as I intend to delay the relay switch until PC is booted up, so I'll listen to the CD changer while the PC boots and will then switch to PC output while emulator is ready :-)]

Be carefull when plugging and unplugging something in a car, I blew up my first HU (fortunately I manged to get a new one in warranty) doing this. My carpc wasn't grounded when I pulled the plug and the AUX input sounded like a badly tuned radio receiver when I plugged it in again. Make sure everything is well grounded, including you. You can create a lot of static electricity when shuffeling around on a car seat.
As far as I can tell from reading the logfiles the CDC starts the communication with a type 11h byte with data 60h 06h, then the HU responds with C5h and communication is started. This should mean that the CDC can initiate the start. Try disconnecting only the CDC ACC connection and when the HU is on reconnect it and see what happens. This should tell us if its possible to initiate comms after the HU is turned on. Only thing is, when this works, that the CDC will not be available at power up so you have to change the source each time at startup.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

:-)
Let's make an example : I'll post the ugly MTTTY source tonight and you'll post the quick and dirty Parser source, so the shame will be shared :-)

Ok

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Strangely enough, I have the feeling your architecture is the mirror of mine :
I thought of ...

Agreed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Funny enough : we're 3 in here (you, Mox and I) that don't need this as we have an alternative solution (respectively AUX input, Connects2 and CD changer) :-) :-).

Personally, what I'm missing most is NEXT/PREV. When I'm alone on the road in "full shuffle" mode and Winamp picks one of my daughter's favourite songs (7 years), you bet I'd like to have easy access to "NEXT" :-)

My son is 10 so his choice of music is a bit more exceptable to me, but I have to agree that controlling the carpc with the Renault installed pilot is a really cool thought and with a bit more effort its not just a thought any more.

Putput · 02-16-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

Hi Guys,
thanks everybody for all dump's, i'm working to develop everything in little interface with atmel and max233(232/202), i think my yampp project can be work fine (After the new code of course), i'm avaible for everythink you have need....

Best Regards
pep

As long as you make everything public its ok, thats why we are using this forum instead of sending PM's.
Otherwise we could try to 'pep the puzz' out of you when you try to compete with Connects2 to build a cheaper interface with our 'sleepless nights' efforts.

pippolippi · 02-16-2006, 07:27 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

I completely agree. I'm definitely not a .NET fan.
BTW, which version of Delphi are you using ?

May I suggest freepascal and lazarus?
With the help of a cross platform serial port library (like synaser) the program can be completely cross platform.
OTOH I really don't mind, once the protocol is known I can make my own program under Linux, and publish it of course

(if and when I can find a cheap usb sound card with spdif output to connect to my laptop).

pippolippi · 02-16-2006, 07:29 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Putput

As long as you make everything public its ok, thats why we are using this forum instead of sending PM's.
Otherwise we could try to 'pep the puzz' out of you when you try to compete with Connects2 to build a cheaper interface with our 'sleepless nights' efforts.

Considering that he's releasing all his code under the GPL I don't see the problem.

peppuz79 · 02-16-2006, 07:33 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Putput

As long as you make everything public its ok, thats why we are using this forum instead of sending PM's.

of course

Otherwise we could try to 'pep the puzz' out of you when you try to compete with Connects2 to build a cheaper interface with our 'sleepless nights' efforts.

[/quote]

ehm sorry not 'pep the puzz' [italian translation= joseph that bad smell],
but 'peppuz' [south south south italy traslation= joseph].

Anyway when my son's sleep i can do something otherwise my 'sleepless nights' are different....

best regards
pep

p.s. what happens when the cd charger is unplugged?what you sniff?

Putput · 02-16-2006, 08:11 AM

Hi peppuz79 & pippolippi,
First, it was not my intention to offend anyone, just trying to be funny and pointing to the fact that we would like to keep this open for everyone. I've looked at yampp website and it seems that I'm gonna spend some time there, looks great.
And the south south south of italy, could this be Sicily? My brothers wife has family over there.

peppuz79 · 02-16-2006, 08:30 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Putput

Hi peppuz79 & pippolippi,
First, it was not my intention to offend anyone, just trying to be funny and pointing to the fact that we would like to keep this open for everyone.

no problem :-).

Quote: Originally Posted by Putput

I've looked at yampp website and it seems that I'm gonna spend some time there, looks great.
And the south south south of italy, could this be Sicily? My brothers wife has family over there.

yes and i think your brothers wife it's very lucky(sun,sea and arancini]!.

Yampp it's great!but the output it's analog for now!
You can use the rs232 to do everything you want for example you can send in rs232 the id3 tag , the rs232 plugged with RDS encoder and you cand see in your radio display the album,song,track and everything you want.

best regard
pep

pippolippi · 02-16-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Putput

First, it was not my intention to offend anyone

Your concerns are valid, I just forgot to put a smiley there

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

thanks everybody for all dump's

You're welcome.

Quote:

i'm working to develop everything in little interface with atmel and max233(232/202), i think my yampp project can be work fine (After the new code of course), i'm avaible for everythink you have need...

Fine, thanks.
Well, for now, as Ale has already made good progress listing most commands and Putput has a working parser/converter, I guess understanding the start up sequence is the next important thing.

Welcome on board :-)

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by peppuz79

p.s. what happens when the cd charger is unplugged?what you sniff?

That's what I intend to discover tonight :-)

PS : I once spent some hours discovering the yampp pages and it's really an impressive project. Congratulations.
BTW, do you own a Renault or are you interested just to make science progress ? :-)

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by pippolippi

May I suggest freepascal and lazarus?
With the help of a cross platform serial port library (like synaser) the program can be completely cross platform.

Freepascal and Lazarus seem very interesting. Being cross platform is always a plus of course, however linking to "plugin DLLs" would probably be hard...
However, if we could make the heart of the emulator compile under freepascal, it would be great.
However, I don't see the point in Synapse. It's a network library, not a serial one, if I'm not mistaken... **EDIT** Now I see what you mean : http://synapse.ararat.cz/files/synaser.zip is lower on the page you mention**

Well, there's also the C way either with Cygwin's gcc or with MS command-line toolkit, but that's nowhere as easy as Delphi or Visual C...

mox · 02-16-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Vicne

Did you make a precise measure of low level on pin 13 (from HU) ? We can't be 2Volts apart...

Levels on both pins are identical, i.e. low = less than 1V, high = 12V.

Quote:

Anyway, thanks very much for the measures.

No problem -- In case you are interested in the data generated by connects2, I would be happy to drive down to Brussels some time soon and let you spy on it. Personally I'd prefer a standalone microcontroller based CDC-faker like the connects2. I'm also still pondering this PIC based "smart switch" between stalk control and the HU/carpc unless the hacked protocol offers substantially more functionality. If I could only find some time to get familiar with PIC programming in assembly...

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mox

Levels on both pins are identical, i.e. low = less than 1V, high = 12V.

OK, So there must be a problem with the scope... If only I had the manual...

Quote:

In case you are interested in the data generated by connects2, I would be happy to drive down to Brussels some time soon and let you spy on it.

Well, it could be interesting, because they probably implemented the minimal compatible dialog. Let's arrange that by PM.

Quote:

Personally I'd prefer a standalone microcontroller based CDC-faker like the connects2. I'm also still pondering this PIC based "smart switch" between stalk control and the HU/carpc unless the hacked protocol offers substantially more functionality. If I could only find some time to get familiar with PIC programming in assembly...

I know you're more on the PIC side, but you're not alone anymore :-).

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 05:50 PM

Just in case anyone is interested, and to honor my promise :-), here's the source for MTTTY. It's actually based on Microsoft's sample code to which I made the following adaptations :
- dump in hex & binary, not in ascii
- make it dual channel
- timestamp and number each byte received
- log everything to files (one per channel)

Note to potential future employer : I'm not coding like that at work. This is a late quick and dirty hack :-)

Vicne · 02-16-2006, 06:14 PM

While changing the connections to allow switching "Remote" pin (17) ON and OFF, I must have changed a bit the breadboard orientation or position and began getting CRC errors again.
Now I am sure that my measurements of "3V low" are wrong, and that the voltage is more like 1V. So taking this hypothesis, I thought that in this case, the divider could be much more balanced (like 10K against the internal 5K)(*) and the tests showed that it improved things very much : I ran a full "intense skipping" session and got zero CRC errors (see attached file -
Edit : an Excel formated version is available in this post).
And this wrong level explains many things :
- the "strange level"
- the observations of Mox (thanks again for having had this walk with your scope :-))
- the fact that CristianC could connect the pin directly to a PC. Indeed, at 1V/12V, the use of the MAX 232 is questionable for most recent PCs that have their threshold above 1V. I would like to hear the opinion of people used to serial communications (Ale again ?) about the removal of the MAX3232 altogether... Only for data coming from the PC probably would it be wiser to change levels I think (at least to avoid sending negative voltage to the CDC)

(*) in fact, the divider could probably be removed too. If we go on that way, the whole interface will soon look like a few wires :-)