Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 12

TomG · 05-02-2006, 07:08 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

I also get the lag, thought it was my machine

It's funny, I tried upgrading today after doing these, then every video encoded after that was frigging upside down so I had to uninstall it and go back to the previous version.

I'll have to try screwing some more with the dsp features, though they didn't seem to do much last time around to improve the situation.

As far as the compensating, there's got to be something else to it. With different lenses, it does a much better job of compensating. I can aim it at a bright light and see the element. Maybe it's a combination of the low F and the wide lens. The other ones I've tried that fare better are more narrow to various degrees.

For instance, one that adjusts from F-1.5 to 16 fairs slightly better than the wide angle F1.6 even at F-1.5. At about 2,it's close to perfect.

In all the experiments in the house, I never had that washed out effect ever. Even aiming a red laser at it, some of the surrounding scene could be seen with good composition (unless you hit it dead center and then the whole thing was white/red), maybe it was a voltage problem for the camera or the lilliput. In the first videos, the camera was hooked up to the camcorder at all times. The last, to the screen. Though I was driving around with just the screen at first with no problems.

its all very well trying to compensate for it but the camera will then in turn use its internal processes to put the metering back to its defined average, you wouldn't gain anything by putting a filter in front of the lens or making the lens smaller, you'd only make the camera less sensitive and so more noisy. It'd still get washed out. It is metering for an AVERAGE of the scene, and that includes the BRIGHT outdoors and the DULL indoors so it is outputting an image that is metered for somewhere in between when in actual fact you want an image metered for the bright bits only as you're not concerned with seeing your dash on camera

shotgunefx · 05-02-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by TomG

its all very well trying to compensate for it but the camera will then in turn use its internal processes to put the metering back to its defined average, you wouldn't gain anything by putting a filter in front of the lens or making the lens smaller, you'd only make the camera less sensitive and so more noisy. It'd still get washed out. It is metering for an AVERAGE of the scene, and that includes the BRIGHT outdoors and the DULL indoors so it is outputting an image that is metered for somewhere in between when in actual fact you want an image metered for the bright bits only as you're not concerned with seeing your dash on camera

See, I don't know if that's the case with the DSP.

For instance, the video where it's snowed out? I put a pair of sunglasses in front of the lense, which made the car visible, but had little if any effect on the rest of the scence.

If I didn't erase it, I'll grap a screen cap.

Peoples · 05-02-2006, 07:46 AM

i wonder if it might be worth it to build an actual roof mount projecto like this thing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-D...60187428QQrdZ1

shotgunefx · 05-02-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Peoples

i wonder if it might be worth it to build an actual roof mount projecto like this thing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-D...60187428QQrdZ1

For one, in my car, I'd crack my skull off it for sure in an accident. It's pretty big.

I mean, basically, it's just a projector and a combiner. If you were going to lay out that kind of money, I'd just get one of these Mitsubishi Pocket Projectorswhen they are finally available

updated, they now are, about fuggin time and not quite the $699 price they were promising.

A few hundred more, but also could use it as a projection monitor.

TomG · 05-02-2006, 09:12 AM

the DLP you linked to won't be very good in car as the screen size it projects is, dare I say it, too big!

Looking inside that proper HUD device, it don't half look simple. The res of the screen is the same as that in the nitemax, we could make one of those easily enough.

12V halogen bulb --> LCD --> lens --> screen

thats pretty much all you'd need I reckon.

shotgunefx · 05-02-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by TomG

the DLP you linked to won't be very good in car as the screen size it projects is, dare I say it, too big!

Looking inside that proper HUD device, it don't half look simple. The res of the screen is the same as that in the nitemax, we could make one of those easily enough.

12V halogen bulb --> LCD --> lens --> screen

thats pretty much all you'd need I reckon.

Probably could fix that with a different lens. Not suggesting it, but if I were to spend $500, then I'd spend $800 for 100X the functionality.

I think a problem with any roof mounted projection approach is the collimator. Wouldn't it be quite visible to the outside world?

TomG · 05-02-2006, 10:44 AM

well yes, it would, but whats to say that same system methodology couldn't be used on the vertical plane instead of horizontal? All it'd do then is light the sky, no one would care about that. Plus, building it yourself wouldn't be that difficult, the hardest part is getting the image on the LCD and orientated the correct way and we have very easy solutions to that problem. The next is the lens, might even be possible to use spectacle lenses, they're quite large before they're cut and pretty good quality.

shotgunefx · 05-02-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by TomG

well yes, it would, but whats to say that same system methodology couldn't be used on the vertical plane instead of horizontal? All it'd do then is light the sky, no one would care about that. Plus, building it yourself wouldn't be that difficult, the hardest part is getting the image on the LCD and orientated the correct way and we have very easy solutions to that problem. The next is the lens, might even be possible to use spectacle lenses, they're quite large before they're cut and pretty good quality.

Yeah, but mounting a projector as large as the one linked inside the dash, would be problematic I think for most cars.

The other suggestion is more or less I think what most of us are trying to do.

spaceskater · 05-02-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

spaceskater
I'll verify tomorrow or the next day, but pretty sure it's the lilliput and not the camera causing the white out. All those videos were shot only minutes before. I think when I plugged in the cam to the lilliput it glitched it. Easy enough to verify.

The other thing I need to do is put the cam on regulated voltage.
For the in car testing, I'm just running it to the ACC socket. I know with some of the cheaper cmos cameras, the picture brightness varies somewhat with voltage. Maybe the same here?

For the polarizing film, did you use it as the display or just lay it over the lilliput? The privacy film I use is sort of like a polarizer, but with a somewhat wide angle. When I layed it over the lcd itself, the double reflection was just about gone.

My main screen is a Xenarc and to be honest if i don't adjust the brightness i get a washed out picture too, but it does not affect the camera itself. I am going to get one of those cheep usb capture devices so i can capture some vids. (BTW I can't download your last vids, server not responding)

I built a simple regulating psu for the camera but i get a lot of noise from the alternator...! I think I will connect it to my pc power supply directly.

I used the polarizing film as a display. Like it would be glued on the windshield. That cancels the double image completely and actually people from the out side can't see the LCD ether. But it makes the windshield to dark to see outside. I think what your privacy film did is to lower the light intensity just enough so that the faint second image was not visible any more. That was what i got my using to Fresnel lenses. When magnified enough the second image was there but barely visible since it was to dim.

I'll try putting some polarizing film om the camera lens to see what happens. The weather here in Boston isn't helping much haha.

alti · 05-02-2006, 12:36 PM

wow, I got my package from Mark today, holy *****! there is alot of toys in here

I have color ccds and I ordered quite a bit of IR arrays.

thanks for the goodies, Mark, he even through in some 5k pots

spaceskater · 05-02-2006, 12:42 PM

BTW that small Mitsubishi projector is really nice!! I want one!!!!

@TomG: Well our biggest problem around here is how we reflect it on the windshield and that HUD projector also uses an extra combiner assembly. That is what we want to avoid!

On the other hand the idea of using the nitemax LCD for a projector is very interesting!

shotgunefx · 05-02-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by spaceskater

My main screen is a Xenarc and to be honest if i don't adjust the brightness i get a washed out picture too, but it does not affect the camera itself. I am going to get one of those cheep usb capture devices so i can capture some vids. (BTW I can't download your last vids, server not responding)

I built a simple regulating psu for the camera but i get a lot of noise from the alternator...! I think I will connect it to my pc power supply directly.

I used the polarizing film as a display. Like it would be glued on the windshield. That cancels the double image completely and actually people from the out side can't see the LCD ether. But it makes the windshield
to dark to see outside. I think what your privacy film did is to lower the light intensity just enough so that the faint second image was not visible any more. That was what i got my using to Fresnel lenses. When magnified enough the second image was there but barely visible since it was to dim.

I'll try putting some polarizing film om the camera lens to see what happens. The weather here in Boston isn't helping much haha.

I hear you. I'm in Boston too.

What the film does is restrict the view angle, so if you were somehow hovering directly above the car or within, you'd see it clear as day.

The reason it dims the double image is the angle at which I'm viewing it, not much light passes through it. It's basically microscopic blinds embedded in a film.

Like this pic.

The nitemax LCD is clearly visible in that pic, but most of the light is blocked out at that angle.

Genesisfactor · 05-02-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Peoples

i wonder if it might be worth it to build an actual roof mount projecto like this thing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-D...60187428QQrdZ1

THis is funny

That looks hot, but there are a few problems (we're going to set aside your noggin, shotgun, for a moment, though its been cracking project problems since i meet you)

Weartronics (been through their store last week, was looking at an HMD they had) has a lot of ex military technology that is VERY cool, but also, being ex military its old. The resolution is too small for us.

Its BNC NSTC and serial for the display data. they state that later in the auction...and the fact that the unit that was at top isa much better unit than the one below and they even recommend another unit that's cheaper and does more.

However, if we cna alter ti, or the other ones, it could be a possibility. What WOULD be cool is if we can take the housing, and build a full windshield system some how. That woudl be amazing...

Now back at shotgun....PocketProjector was a last week research too (a friend told me about them after asking him about display inversion software and telling him about the project). The only thing that's wrong with it is the price at $799, and all the stores Mistu selectively distributed it to, have it for even more. I couldn't find jack on it online other than the rumors, the delays, and then finally, the stores. It IS a solution, yes, but I can't see us dropping $750 for a projector that would most likely be mounted where billforde has his LCD. When it hits $400, i'll pic k that sucker up and a buttload of HUD glass.

Then i have to get to work on a nice full screen...gah....too much tech...making me drool...

jammy_basturd · 05-02-2006, 05:23 PM

GenesisFactor: I'm guessing when you say their HMD you meant this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NEAR-EYE-HEA...spagenameZWDVW

What was your verdict on it? I saw it and was wondering as to its uses....

TomG · 05-02-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by spaceskater

@TomG: Well our biggest problem around here is how we reflect it on the windshield and that HUD projector also uses an extra combiner assembly. That is what we want to avoid!

On the other hand the idea of using the nitemax LCD for a projector is very interesting!

this is what I was planning from the offset tbh, it'll be the best way of doing it. It isn't a combiner, its a collimator, doesn't do anything like "combining" images.

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

The resolution is too small for us.

The resolution of the nitemax LCD is only 480x234, thats not a massive difference, and if you consider that system is specifically designed for HUD and ours are (currently) really only bodges, I know which I'd prefer given the choice.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password