Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 20

NiteMax Mark · 06-06-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 04f150XLT

Genesisfactor

Do you know how to contact Mark? I sent him a PM few days ago and haven’t received reply yet. Thanks

I'm back from my trip.

Who do I owe what? I remember trying to get the VGA thing to work with the LCD and I also have a bunch of unclaimed lenses here.

shotgunefx · 06-06-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by spaceskater

Throughout my experiments I found out that projecting was really hard exactly for the same reason. Plus it need space. I am very close in abandoning this project to be honest basically because I don't have the space in my dash to fit ANY type of system without truly gutting it. But I did find out some very interesting things by trial and error. By using two Fresnel lenses of different power on top of an LCD you can magnify the image AND focus it in the distance. This is something like the projectors do. Also this will diffuse the light of the LCD and will probably diminish the double image effect to minimum and you can also use a smaller LCD since you magnify it which means less space needed. I also tried a polarized film on the windshield which worked perfectly but then you have this dark piece of film on the windshield, not acceptable by me. The best colimnator i tried was the HUB glass from Electronic Goldmine, it has a pinkish hew and you can still see it in front of you but at least it is very transparent. If I was going forward with this I would use the Fresnel lenses and the windshield.

Weird, my hud glass doesn't have any hue, but the side that aims away has a very light spotted look.

I agree it's a *****. I did some experiments with defocusing the image itself, looks like it might work.

I did some research on defocusing and consulted my trusty "Computer Graphics: Principles & Practice by Foley & Van damme", (I'd really like to get the second edition with the code in english, hmm looking it's only $62, I think I paid $100+ for the original).

Most of the stuff I came across was way over done. I mean, this is a special case of depth of field, projecting a plane perpendicular to the viewer at an abitrary focal length, so it's a lot simplier than projecting abitrary objects in an abitrary scene.

The biggest problem I have is that most programs I have access to only allow small filters (ie 5x5) which isn't really enough to creat a large enough "circle of confusion".

I need a bigger matrix, so one of these days, maybe this weekend, I'll write a program to do it. I wish the Imagemagick had a better example of plugin filters.

I tried doing some tests with a camera lens and some printed samples of the unfocused pictures which "kind of" worked. It got a little sharper but not enough, I think this is mainly because I'm using a printout instead of a transparency and hampered by the resolution of the printer.

As soon as I get around to writing the filter program, I'll do more tests. Maybe in the interim, create some hi-res images and get them printed to transparencies at kinkos or something.

On the plus side, if it does work, not a terriblly consuming operation, so realtime is probably well within reach.

If this doesn't pan out, I'm going to just say hell with the hud for now. The plan has always been to have a lcd gauge cluster replacement so I can live without it.

shotgunefx · 06-06-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jarofsonicmen

OK, another stupid interjection:
http://www.rickleephoto.com/rlcoll.htm

How about ditching the HUD part, and just projecting from the LCD onto a single fresnel lens? OK, it kills the overlay (which apparently we're not having much luck with) but as a benefit, it does away with the double-image problem (if you angle the lens at the right angle).

Something like this (pardon my ASCII art - ognore horizontal lines to preserve spacing)
__/ <- windshield
_/__\ <- fresnel lens
/____\
\ <-LCD

It doesn't give you the overlay, and poses some issues for protecting the LCD from sunlight, but it might give you part of what you're looking for. I would fear for the legality of raising the top of the screen above the line-of-sight to the front of the hood though.

It's a thought, but if I'm going to have an obstruction, I might as well just put the lcd there itself. (Well maybe not if I'm worried about theft)

shotgunefx · 06-06-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiteMax Mark

I'm back from my trip.

Who do I owe what? I remember trying to get the VGA thing to work with the LCD and I also have a bunch of unclaimed lenses here.

Welcome back Mark.

A couple of quick questions when you get the chace. Can you run Svideo directly to the cameras?

And also, the little feature connectors, do you have any with all the wires in or do they all have the others cut?

Genesisfactor · 06-06-2006, 11:38 PM

Crap, i go anitsocial for a bit and i lose pace wiht the thread. Okay,

@shotgun, when did you switch over to the gauge cluster side? I'm not understanding the purpose of your project with the camcorder viewfinder, although

@Alti...where are you man?

More questoions to follow...

shotgunefx · 06-06-2006, 11:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

Crap, i go anitsocial for a bit and i lose pace wiht the thread. Okay,

@shotgun, when did you switch over to the gauge cluster side? I'm not understanding the purpose of your project with the camcorder viewfinder, although
...

I've been planning to replace my gauge cluster since 03, it's just been a slow, slow process. But if I can have a HUD too, I'll do it for the cool factor.

Basically I'm going to have the lcd on a pivot. Mounted on top, analog gauges. Press a button and the lcd "opens" and reveals the digital gauges while hiding the analog.

Here's a side view of what I mean.

The viewfinder was just to test a different way of projecting a HUD. Basically a view finder is a tiny projector, so figured it was worth a shot. Plus would have been easy to tuck in the dash.

Genesisfactor · 06-07-2006, 12:14 AM

hmmm, okay...but have you considered just putting your film on the glass and reflecting it from the top. Since you don't really ahve to bother with seeing past it (esp if you make yoru HUD show information) and the fact that if the lights are on, the speedo behind it should glow through...I mena, hav eyou tried it and if so, cna i see a pic of two of the outcome before i chop up my goodies?

shotgunefx · 06-07-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

hmmm, okay...but have you considered just putting your film on the glass and reflecting it from the top. Since you don't really ahve to bother with seeing past it (esp if you make yoru HUD show information) and the fact that if the lights are on, the speedo behind it should glow through...I mena, hav eyou tried it and if so, cna i see a pic of two of the outcome before i chop up my goodies?

Not sure I follow you. Not sure we're on the same page.

Reflecting it from the top?? You mean the roof or something?

"the speedo behind it should glow through"

The speedo won't be behind anything.

Genesisfactor · 06-07-2006, 12:50 AM

Damn it....i just draw you a picture and i hit the back key on my IBM keyboard. I mena, have the LCD ont he cowel of the guage cluster, and it refklcts off the glass. The gagues themselves shoudl shine through

shotgunefx · 06-07-2006, 12:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

Damn it....i just draw you a picture and i hit the back key on my IBM keyboard. I mena, have the LCD ont he cowel of the guage cluster, and it refklcts off the glass. The gagues themselves shoudl shine through

The HUD & digital dash are two seperate things.

When the touchscreen goes in the gauge cluster, It's just going to be a regular lcd with backlight. The idea is to have the normal gauges on top for a few reasons.

1. Inspectional purposes. Plus if the computer is out, I'll still have regular gauges. Also hides it from thieves.
2. The coolness factor.
3. My existing cluster is not well thought out. All the gauges are behind the wheel from the driver's perspective. You can't really see them without craning around the steering wheel. The redesign will put it higher, but not above the hoodline.

Here's roughly what it will look like.

As far as the HUD, I just want that to project on the windshield like everyone else.

Genesisfactor · 06-07-2006, 11:17 AM

wait a sec, then i'm def not following your project...or the ergonomics of the project.

First let me go through the realistic and hten i';ll hit the fanciful...

You're puttiung your touchscreen in the gauge cluster? But why the TOUCH screen, why not a regular LCD screen? Do you really want to reach over your steering wheel to hit something?

Alos, i'm wondering if we lost the inital focus of the project. THe video feed was supposed to be the image from the NiteMax, which had a practical factor (i would drive by that image....and have...and its safer than without at times). My only addition ws the overlay fo the IGuidance screen for mapping. and speedo. I've alwyas said that having a full out video would be problemmatic and dangerous because you can't see through most colors except dark ones (for the windshield) and that the gauge cluster would be the safest place for such a system, but a touch screen gauge cluster???. Where are you going with the project? I gotta know

On the fanciful side, why not do this (it might work, might not, never tried it). The resistive glass overlay (if it fits) goes on the gauge glass (my Hitatchi one from my trannsnote is clear) and reflect form the cowl of the dash (its the lip that keeps the sun out of the dash so you can see everything) and angle it so it shines on the overly. That way, no matter what, you get your LCD, your touchscreen, and your guage cluster. Just a thought.

trasko · 06-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

wait a sec, then i'm def not following your project...or the ergonomics of the project.

I don't want to speak for someone else here, but I believe you have just confused two separate things into one. Ignore anything to do with the gauges, touch screens and instrument panels and you'll be good... Aside from a few asides here and there, this whole thread is about the Nitemax and how to make a proper "infinity-focused" HUD from its output.

shotgunefx · 06-07-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

wait a sec, then i'm def not following your project...or the ergonomics of the project.

First let me go through the realistic and hten i';ll hit the fanciful...

You're puttiung your touchscreen in the gauge cluster? But why the TOUCH screen, why not a regular LCD screen? Do you really want to reach over your steering wheel to hit something?

Alos, i'm wondering if we lost the inital focus of the project. THe video feed was supposed to be the image from the NiteMax, which had a practical factor (i would drive by that image....and have...and its safer than without at times). My only addition ws the overlay fo the IGuidance screen for mapping. and speedo. I've alwyas said that having a full out video would be problemmatic and dangerous because you can't see through most colors except dark ones (for the windshield) and that the gauge cluster would be the safest place for such a system, but a touch screen gauge cluster???. Where are you going with the project? I gotta know

On the fanciful side, why not do this (it might work, might not, never tried it). The resistive glass overlay (if it fits) goes on the gauge glass (my Hitatchi one from my trannsnote is clear) and reflect form the cowl of the dash (its the lip that keeps the sun out of the dash so you can see everything) and angle it so it shines on the overly. That way, no matter what, you get your LCD, your touchscreen, and your guage cluster. Just a thought.

Your are correct, I wouldn't and really couldn't be using it as a touch screen on the gauge cluster. In my original design, no touch screen at all, anywhere, just the trackball built into the shifter, (though I had already purchased the lilli with TS for cheap)

I knew it would take awhile, so I put it in the double din until everything was done, then I figured, what the hell, I'll just have dual heads, the touchscreen in the center console and the other screen in the gauge cluster.

I keep refering to it as such because that's what I have at the moment also pegs down which lcd we're refering to here. (lilli, nitemax,camcorder

)

Originally as far as nitemax, I was just thinking of feeding the video to the eventual gauge replacment. Other people discussed projecting it as a HUD and the idea of a HUD on the windshield seemed cool, for cool sake so got me thinking about that. As an aside, the few tests of done with projecting in front of the windsheild, all colors are fairly transparent.

If you want to have it reflect on the gauge cluster and you have the room, probably would be best to just use a PSONE screen and just have it reflect off the cluster glass. You'd still need to hide it from view though. You could probably use a piece of that privacy film like I did. That hid the lcd pretty well, but it was somwhat far away from me due to the layout of my dash. If the lcd is really close to you, you'd probably need to angle the lcd and/or privacy film to get it to disappear to your eyes.

shotgunefx · 06-07-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by trasko

I don't want to speak for someone else here, but I believe you have just confused two separate things into one. Ignore anything to do with the gauges, touch screens and instrument panels and you'll be good... Aside from a few asides here and there, this whole thread is about the Nitemax and how to make a proper "infinity-focused" HUD from its output.

Probably not helping that I've got a dozen things going on and might have meandered here and there where they overlap.

Silentbob343 · 06-07-2006, 06:07 PM

If you can't get over the projection problem you might have to do something like this:
LCD displays phony analog gauges:

When the night vision system is turned on the circular speedo goes away, and is replaced with a linear Speedo gauge along the bottom:

I know it's not as cool as the HUD, but......