Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 3

Genesisfactor · 04-10-2006, 09:21 AM

okay, i decided to join the crew with a simple nitemax LCD HUD and use the RCA out to the computer. Does anyone have any updates or suggestions? also, can we get some contact info?

alti · 04-10-2006, 09:35 AM

It have been making some progress, I am close to done with the box that I built for the camera and ccd, I was about to solder up molex connectors for both boxs (the camera and the main box for in the dash) but I am still struggling on deciding which box to use for in the dash. I have two,. one will probibly be too small and require diffcult/layered mounting of the controller, power board and lcd, and then it may not provide the lcd as much movement/clearence as i would like. And the other box is too large, and I would have to cut out a HUGE chuck of my dashboard, but would give me room to adjust the position of the lcd, ect.

I have not been able to find a box inbetween(radio shack project boxes) I probibly should look around more first.

anyway, hit me up on IM in my profile and i will pm you my #.

Buddha · 04-10-2006, 11:08 AM

This is going to be amazing when its done. Good Luck guys.

P.S. Bump because Alti lives down the street from me and I'm going to steal his Albrite Mwahaha!

Genesisfactor · 04-14-2006, 10:39 AM

so i'm thinking to myself one day, what's protected from sunlight, usually dark, will remain stationary, won't kill my view of driving of overstimulate, and is a good display platform. And then i looed down at my speedometer..."it can't be that simple"

No light problems, no worrying about cops, you can keep your eyes on the road ahead (windshild), or keep your eyes on the road ahead (HUD) wihtout damaging your night vision. Its soemthing you look at regualrly anyways, so no new behaviors to force-learn, like weeding out a distracting screen or readjusting yoru eyes in ways you're not used to. No tints neccesary, so night driving is unhindered when the system is down, film is though. Daylight veiwable in many cases, unless the sun is at that lovely angle and offset behind you, and then you can up the brightness, no problem.

Place the nitemax LCD on the stearing wheel column and film the guage cluster.a few adjustments and its show time. Sure, the guage cluser will reflect a bit more, and be harder to read, but i'm wondering if we can't solve that in other ways, like have an LCD sctrip that displays speedo info (i have na automatic, so RPMs are only a concern when i'm worried about my engine, but i hear you M/T drivers can hear when to shift) The warning lights are bright enough to display behind, and at night, you just tunr down the interiror lights. If you want speedo, i'm wodnering it it will produce and eerie overly/underlay effect- that would be COOL!!

What do you think?

alti · 04-14-2006, 02:48 PM

The new S class has the night vision where you are talking about, It is not reflected, however the entire dashboard is made up of pixels!

Personally, I think it will be most useful on the windshield, it is where it will be be the most visible. I entertained an idea simular to yours (except i was going to try in install an lcd in the place of the speedometer, but my gauge cluster is of the annoying small circle type and the screen would be to small to be practical.

alti · 04-14-2006, 03:02 PM

On a side note I received my opus 120 from mp3car today (with a invoice number that read in binary 10011 = 19 base10

Which made me think that if I ever sold techie stuff I would do all of my invoice numbers in binary

) EDIT: very fast as always I ordered it on wed and recieved it on friday

The 120 is my new power regulation for my dvd, screen, usb devices and night vision system, freeing up my dsatx. I have been suffering from inadequate power on my 5v rail and the additional hardware I am adding for this project would have put it over the edge for sure.

The 120 should work without the atx connected if I short the j6 jumper(works like an AT power supply) hopefully this is accurate

Genesisfactor · 04-14-2006, 03:34 PM

no no..i dont' want the LCD on the inside. THe S class is nice, but that's all LCD, and hence very expensie and not an HUD liek we're making. i want something that will just reflect off the light. What ths also does is makes the bottons closer for steering wheel control.

i looked again, and realized i swtich the angle that the glass recessing to, it'll have to be at the top of the insde cowel

Genesisfactor · 04-14-2006, 08:18 PM

Well, i know this thread has many readers and what not, and i've been once accused on only nay-saying or coming up with ideas but never action, but today i went a bit proactive. Some of you are trying to visualize what alti, quantum, and I AND shotgunefx (sorry buddy, didn't know!) are trying to do. Some are trying it figure out what i'm trying to do. Others are still trying to figure out what i said

. Well, in one of those moments where a bright idea hit me...a bright idea hit me.

"I have a pocket PC. It has an LCD. Its really thin, i can place it almost anywhere, and has adujstable brightness. I have a digital camera. Why the HELL didn't i think of this before??? Oooooo..shiny..."

Anyways, one big thing i didn't think about was flash and my once steady hand shaking the camera to blur everything. So, without furher ado, my shots

taken at twilight

taken at night

interestingly enough, at this position, my G20 has a lip around the glas, and it has this really nice side effect...

taken at tiwlight

taken at night

You can't really even see it!

For the first one, although taken at twilight, when i could get a decent picture with as little hand shaking as possible, you can easily see that the image of the screen is noticable form a high angle, but when in a car, standing a little back,or level, as in the night shot, its almost not there!

here is why i wanted the LCD under the cowel of the guage cluster.

I moved the image up in oder to find a good location and also lowered the brightness. this was the best mix of brightness and transperancy. After this, atleast for me, the image faded out. I took other,s but they illustrate the samepoint- its VERY HARD to get it so that the brightness of the image doesn't give you teh two way mirror effect and make you totally lose the outside world.

at low low light, the guage cluster

Now, this works better in my celica, which si where i got the idea, than in my G, as the celica has a much wider cowel. The G's narrow profile really doesn't let it work too well here, but its a proof of concept. This was taken with the night shots and the brightness hasn't been adjusted. As you can see, the image...well..kinda see...is pretty clear...also, the speedo, which is off, is visible somewhat. It has a better trasnperancy than using it on the windshield. WHen illuminated, the speedo will be able to be seen through the image pretty clearly (or should).

alti · 04-15-2006, 11:40 AM

dont forget shotgunefx, in the above list!

looking at your pictures I am starting to think that I need to look more seriously at projecting the image through a lens to make it larger then simply reflecting it on to the windshield. the image looks really small, another possibily might be to get a larger screen for reflection though. The whole HUD part is really a pain in the ***

right when i thought I was makeing good progress too, yesterday I wento to home depot and bought the parts to make the lcd mount in my case and make it ajustible (tilt) with a screw. WIll post pics later have to run out now.

Genesisfactor · 04-15-2006, 01:21 PM

Shotgun's doing HUD too??? haha, seriously, we gotta start our own Nitemax/HUD subforum!

Yes, image enlargement is a MUST. It will lower the brightness, and that's seriosuly not a bad thing. I couldn't see jack through the projected image. Also, bit problem that BigPoppa reminded me last night...this is a REFLECTION, so you'll have to REVERSE AND FLIP UPSIDE DOWN the image. I'm not sure about reversing, but flipping is pretty easy

Hehehe, progress is painful. Check out your dash again, if you have a lip, and a great angle in your window like the G20 does (Nissan cars, what can i say?) this project is made worlds easier as all you have to do is cut a but into the dashat the edge, where the LCD hits. Ofcourse a box makes it trasnferable...which makes em like your idea better

Hehe, you are making good progress...all i did was but two and two together, made for and showed the class how much a rock at english.

.

Seriously though, what did you think of tthe gauge cluster idea and photos?

My biggest concern now, with the projection HUD, is that its not going to be transparent enough to see the road ahead unless you have lots of black in it. The nitemax imange will be too bright and distracting, IMO, or it may defeat the purpose since the darker parts of the miange will fade out into the scenery. That's, atleast, what i believe will happen based on my tests. If your friend has a pocket PC, try it one night. You'll see what i mean.

Then again, my statmenet is based on the idea that this is going to be an aid. If you're driving soley by the nitemax, then by all means, you're on the correct route. See if you can get an IR laser with a beam scatter, kind of like what they have for regular laser pointers, of an arrow so that it can tell you where your heading is. I would suggest seeing if a regualr laser pointer would do this, but then you have the issue of visible projecting red lights and that's, once again, a no-no that hits you with an undisputable fine.

For those doing a fullscreen carputer display, a windows theme that has everythign high contrast in a mostly black background is then the best route if you're using this while driving. however, because of that, it restricts it to making it good for raw data, such as MP3 ID tags and whatnot, but suck for movies.

The BEST thing this could be used for is navigation while driving though....a projected on screen map...using IGuidance's night mode all the time, that could be hot. Just seeing your heading, roads, and everything. I may try that! I'll seriously take pics of it tonight, i just hope i'll have figured out a way to steady the camera to give you guys a great view. Hehe, its hard cause i have to do it in a way that has the dash in the picture as it won't focus soley on the projected image.

Anything beyond that is just too distracting.

This ofcourse, is not to pull you away, nay say, or anything for the sort, but to inform you of the possible cons in doing this. If not done right, seriously alti, this could get dangerous. There are many issues to be reviewed in doing this knowing the risks, including the legal ramifications, such as a potential lawsuit, a law that will be passed down restircting carputer use after a fatal accident, and the fact that no one, including me, wants you hurt or dead, espcially because of a design we helped you construct (if you can call what i've been doing "helping"). I just want to warn you.

I want to see this finished though, so go for it!

alti · 04-15-2006, 03:45 PM

ok I am posting this up really quick as i am running out the door, but i wanted to get ideas on the adjustible mount for the lcd.

Here is a pic of the general layout

Here is the hardwaer that I bought at the depot to make the mechanism work.

I had to trim down the anchor part of the hollow wall anchors so I would get a larger range of motion

And here are some pics of it almost done, there will be nuts soldered /glued onto the metal that are larger then the adjustment screws to hold the adjustment screws in place where they touch the platform, otherwise it is pretty much up and working.

GF, I will write back my thoughts on your post later or tommorrow, been running around all weekend and want to be able to put thought into the response.

Genesisfactor · 04-15-2006, 04:00 PM

NICE!!! it looks kinda big...make sure it goes on yoru dash without destroying your view. could be a ticket. but seriously, youv'e done ALOT. your angle may not need to be that high though

.

Hehe, yeah, my mom's an attorney, which is why the legal concerns me so much.

how much was all that hardware?$10-$15? Not bad at all...

btw, hehe, i'm being na engieer now...have you thought about using bolts and a washer above the module, with a spring beneath the module? I'm just curious because one day at my place, taht was a solution to an ajustment problem that we had.

Oh, and i trield to emulate it on the celica. Its definitely a night thing only! I'll see if hte G20 is differnet, cause i seriously wouldn't mind projecting an Iguidance map on the window

Genesisfactor · 04-16-2006, 12:00 AM

my idea worked prefectly.

Here's the results. Lost Reception was there with me and showed me a thing or two about iguidance and provided the digi cams. When we meet up next, it will be with a 7" LCD

To show that it is easily seen

To show that you can see htrough the image

Mission accomplished. Almost.

This was in Lost Reception's new xB. Its light senstive only to outside light, but you can see it even with interior lights on. It uses the basic idea behind two way mirrors,m so as long as the LCD remains brighter than the outside world, you'll be fine for even daylight viewing. All you guys wiht the ultra brite LCDs, rejoice. My transflcetive screen PPC wont' cut it in daylihgt.

The final things htat p****es me off abou tit is this: becuase i'm just doing proof of concept and i'm no where near completing hte install, i won't have it installed and working on my car until the summer NYC meet. Everyone going to the NYC meet WILL however see it in action...and how easy it is to set up. I suggest getting a dual monitor display and working with it through a display in the dash and a display to project the map.

When Lost and i get togehter again, we'll do it with the nightmax and try to figure something out with that. I still say there's too much white. Red is the best way to go with it, or green. Mark, you'll be needing to explain how to change the color of the LCD in great detail if you havne't already done so.

Our biggest problem right now though is the double display that we got iwht the xB's windscreen. I'm not sure how to solve that. My G dind't have that problem as bad if i remember. I'll hvae to check again. If it DOES have that problem, then clarity is impossible without alterng the actual window as far as my working knowledge goes. I'll need to research. Quantum, if you cna correct this PLEASE let me know cause...yeah...

alti · 04-16-2006, 03:26 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

NICE!!! it looks kinda big...make sure it goes on yoru dash without destroying your view. could be a ticket. but seriously, youv'e done ALOT. your angle may not need to be that high though

.

Its not going on my dash (that would be rather unclean looking) its going under the dash (recessed into it in a project box, see pics at start of thread) Also the whole point of the mechanism is that it is now adjustible so i can change the angle between around 20 and 65 degress, I can also slighty manipulate the angle left ot right be makeing one sides adjustment screw higher or lower then the other.

The problem you are experiencing on LR's windshield goes back to what i mentioned eariler in the thread regarding the need for some sort of film or tint that will reflect the image. The two panes of glass in the windshield case a 'double vision' effect on a untreated windshield.

Genesisfactor · 04-16-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by alti

Its not going on my dash (that would be rather unclean looking) its going under the dash (recessed into it in a project box, see pics at start of thread) Also the whole point of the mechanism is that it is now adjustible so i can change the angle between around 20 and 65 degress, I can also slighty manipulate the angle left ot right be makeing one sides adjustment screw higher or lower then the other.

Hehe, believe me, i wrote a MUCH alonger thread about a simpler design until it hit m e that 2d image manipulation was what your'e looking for. I was making the bolt and washer sugesstion because a bolt is easier than a screwhead to twist for "on the fly" adjustments, that's all.

. I'm serious though, thatr really looks nice, and i'd love to see it in action. I'm curious, these are minute adjustments, right? I ask because the more offset the image is from location 0 (perfect), the more distorted it will be unless you slide the actual screen (to get my image on the upper windshield, i moved the PPC back up the dash). Please excuse the questions and what not, I'm trying to see all the things the mechansim will accomplish and how, trying to better understand it, you know?

Quote: Originally Posted by alti

The problem you are experiencing on LR's windshield goes back to what i mentioned eariler in the thread regarding the need for some sort of film or tint that will reflect the image. The two panes of glass in the windshield case a 'double vision' effect on a untreated windshield.

See, the thing is i don't remember having that issue on the G20. The thing that worries me about he tint is the whole "ghosting" that might occur, although, that was the original purpose of the tint, wasn't it

. Sorry, i forgot...i do that lot these days. But that is the finsl problem for to to solve.

@quantum, i'm really interested in how far you got! You're probably done with some full screen comtraption that puts everything we're doing to shame.

EDIT: http://www.dupont.com/safetyglass/en...ts/hud_gm.html. Its seesm GM solved this by having a bit of Dupont's PVC in the windwshiled between the two layers of glass. I'm no longer sure if what i saw in my G was just me being blind or it was really a double image. I had no idea it was two layers of glass (i really didn't!). Something tells me this is going to be REALLY hard to do ourselves...quantum...you can pop in anytime here with a solution...please?