Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 38

quantum · 03-02-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

...Focus to be 20-50ft ahead of you. I still haven't solved that one. right now, to see the screen, the focus is the distance of the LCD away from the windshield + the distance the windshield is away from your eyes, as it is a direct reflection. This is not good. I know through lenses we can change the distance, but then that makes this project really really hard. This is where QUANTUM should stand up and give us his solution...right quantum? quantum??

You rang??? Glad to hear you are feeling better GF!

Actually, with any reflection in a mirror, the image is 2x the distance from the mirror. For example, if you were 3ft from the mirror (or reflective service), the image you see, and your focus, is actually 6ft away. If I am envisioning your setup correctly, that shaves the need by half.

Let me know what you are trying to do exactly and I will see if I can put my formulas to work for a solution. It sould like it needs to be done with mirrors though, not lenses.

On a lighter note, my PC has been down since the monitor went blew out, plus it's been too goddamn cold to be out there working on the car. factor in real-life and holidays, and damn, it's spring already!

I have not forgotten about the nightvision setup, as a matter of fact I was this close to getting a couple of thermal imaging cores off e-bay. They were just the guts of the camera and the optics, no cases ot nothing, perfect for this use. They were untested, which made me think twice, but they were the solutuion to true caddy-vision...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...7829&rd=1&rd=1

Genesisfactor · 03-02-2007, 03:41 PM

Quantum--

Thanks! techinically i'm just discharged. We'll see next step.

As for the HUD, yeah, that's pretty much it. Its a 1:~1 reflection, yet how are we supposed to do a mirror system on the dash? Any ideas?

Sorry about your monitor. what did you have, maybe i have one...

As for the ebay item....i need your kind of budget!!!

NiN^_^NiN · 03-05-2007, 07:23 PM

Ahh this old thread again lol

Still having problems i see?

Whats ur problem with the mirror?

screen is flat on the dash the mirror is at a 45 degree angle and it will reflect on the glass the proper way its how i've had mine going for ages just have some tint on the glass and ur done

Would it help that i recently saw a 5" lcd screen with RGB in and a switch for the image to be flipped (has mirror flip and upside down flip)?

This was at a store i went past lastweek

Genesisfactor · 03-05-2007, 08:13 PM

I think the saying is "Don't just do it, Do it RIGHT"

We're not having problems as much as we're hitting new goals and hurdles.

the tint and reflection isn't teh issue. the angle is fine. now we have to project a new focus distance. it can't be 3-6ft in front teh car. tat's impractical. 20ft is better. i'm looking at lenses right now, but for me, i'm using a 12.1- 14.1" laptop screen, so no lens for me:-P. Anyways, yeah.

My biggest question to quantum is this: where do you put the mirror. Ar the point of focus or equidistant after the focus from the intended distance your eyes are form the windsheild?

this si taken form the VR vision project and projects a focus of 2m away when the real distance is only an inch or two.

NiN^_^NiN · 03-05-2007, 10:52 PM

im abit confused how far are u wanting to have it from the windshield?

With GPS u don't need a big screen u can see the roads and ur car easily its how all these lil 3" gps units stuck on the windshield can work so well u dont need it to be huge

Genesisfactor · 03-05-2007, 11:25 PM

its ease of use and safety. Plus, this isn't just GPS, this was supposed to project an image from the IR cameras. There's many things it is to be used for. ~20ft distance allows you to drive and see the map without too much eye strain. Its like augmented vision for your car.

quantum · 03-06-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by NiN^_^NiN

im abit confused how far are u wanting to have it from the windshield?

With GPS u don't need a big screen u can see the roads and ur car easily its how all these lil 3" gps units stuck on the windshield can work so well u dont need it to be huge

It's not a matter of being "huge", really. It's about perception, focus and safety as well.

Every time you take your eyes off the road, you travel 88 ft, which is plenty of time to take out a crosswalk full of nuns (no offense to any nuns on the forum).

Looking at something "on the windshield" is pretty much the same as taking your eyes off the road ahead. At the windshield (18" - 24" give or take), your eyes are accommodating for an intermediate zone, not distance. You can experience this phenomenon by focusing on your home monitor and trying to see what beyond it looks like. You can kind of see what's across the room, but it's blurry. For us older fella's, making the eyes focus on that intermediate zone can be a lil' bit of a stretch, and it also takes a longer time for the eyes to re-focus at any distance, near or far.

So, the true heads up displays do some optical tomfoolery to make the image appear like it is floating at a point in space at about 15-20ft. This way, your eyes are still focusing ahead, and your distance vision is activated. You are not taking your eyes off the road to read the data or display, and the nuns are safe.

The Cadillac heads up display was designed with safety in mind, combining see-in-the-dark-without-taking-your-eyes-off-the-road with a very cool gadget factor.

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

My biggest question to quantum is this: where do you put the mirror. Ar the point of focus or equidistant after the focus from the intended distance your eyes are form the windsheild?

I am just taking a guess here at the moment, but my thoughts are that we perceive smaller as further away. So, if the image were minified smaller than a 1/1 ratio, then it would "appear" further away. My 5" in the speaker grill reflecting on the windshield did appear further away, but not by much.

This could probably be done with a series of curved mirrors, as is common with passenger side mirrors, making objects appear closer than they are and increasing field of view. The reverse would make objects appear further away and a smaller field of view. The bending and manipulation of light is an exact science. Some of it outside my scope, not alot, but some.

Some looooong reading on bent mirrors can be found here: http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...ln/u13l3a.html

Not for nuthin', but has anyone considered a 15" LCD as a hood ornament?

Genesisfactor · 03-06-2007, 12:58 AM

that's what the image is. Its the optical drawing of a microdisplay VR that makes it seem like its far ahead

.

It seems you use a concave glass, but where it focuses is the trick. I don't know. quantum, email me when you have an answer. This sounds like it will be up to your caliber in challenges

lol, unfortunately, a 15" screen on your hood in NYC would get stolen while you're driving.

nin, here is some light reading thatwll help you understand it a bit more

http://vresources.org/articles/vre_a.../stereang.html

Peoples · 03-09-2007, 09:35 PM

holy hell i can't believe this thread is still alive

Genesisfactor · 03-10-2007, 12:41 PM

why would it die. We ain't dead or done yet!

marc456 · 03-12-2007, 06:17 PM

I have been lurking about for what seems like eons! and now I have found somthing really interesting. I too am trying to make a hud for my car! the problem is not in the dispaly or the flipping of the image. My biggest hurdle is focusing the display on the reflector to infinity, so that the light rays are all parallel!. Once this is done no matter what you look at on the road, whether it be 2 metres or 5 km away you will always percieve the HUD overlay at that distance. Hence it would not be impossible to overlay information on the windshield about the road ahead. This would be difficult as it would require pupil tracking but thankfully infra red proovides an easy solutioin to that. I am trying to chase this goal as I have experimented about and IMHO it takes 400ms to focus on a dash dial and then to look back at the road and re-focus. My eyes could be shot but i think from a safety point of view it would be a major player!

As I said the real issue is in the optics, if you look at hud projector units in aircraft they are 95% glass optics the rest is a high intensity screen and electronics. I will be very interested to see how anyone can project a large format lcd onto a screen that is focused to 8m in front of the car.

thought you might find this of some use in your pursuit.

http://www.usaarl.army.mil/hmd/cp_003.htm

I breifly tried designing some lenses but i will have to admit that optic design is beyond my technical capabilties :-(

Although I would recommend that to make a success of a HUD you may have to reduce the size of the LCD to perhaps 1inch, I realise they are specialist items but there are hi-res phone displays out there! Hitachi have just realeased one, I think its 800*420 and about 2.3 inches diagnal (widescreen format)

jammy_basturd · 03-22-2007, 08:03 AM

Forgive my simplistic way of thinking, but I have yet begun my experimentations with this. But, those that are looking at using mirrors to focus the HUD image further away, could you not use a binocular system? And if so, you could even create a system where you can move on of the mirrors via a motor and be able to change the focal distance with the touch of a button!

I imagine is not quite that easy though....

shotgunefx · 03-23-2007, 04:29 PM

Long time no see guys. I've been getting hammered with stuff. Glad to see you're still working on it.

FYI, as far as the glare issues with the nitemaxes, did some playing with linear polarizers.

For the B/W nitemax, virtually no change. For the ultra color CCDs, it helps a lot without degrading the picture much. Doesn't do squat for the bloom of oncoming headlights though. Try and post some video later.

So... I've ordered a new wide angle auto-iris lens, between the two, it should be a big improvement.

Also ordered an 8ch quad video processor so I can just capture 2 or 4 cameras at once instead of modifying streamer or similar to capture front and back interlacing frames.

As far as projection... anyone try something similar to this?

I think I'll have to attempt this as time allows, I've got a bunch of mirror chrome lexan sheeting ( Alsa Corp | FXSheeting : Product Info ), so shaping the mirror would be easier, if it needs to be a half mirror, maybe some two way mirror off of ebay and a heatgun???

As an aside, a properly projected HUD is not without issues as well. Somewhere I have an airforce research paper describing attention tunneling. Basically some people tunnel in on the HUD and don't focus on what's in front of them.

TIMMYB199 · 03-24-2007, 12:03 AM

Jason Bradbury: In-Car H.U.D Video

might be of interest

TIMMYB199 · 03-24-2007, 12:11 AM

he used a lcd and a cd cover apperently the platic work great to reflect it

Jason Bradbury: In-Car H.U.D Video