Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 43

wizardPC · 12-18-2007, 10:31 PM

You guys just made hackaday:
http://www.hackaday.com/2007/12/17/n...ds-up-display/

That's why there's so many guests viewing the thread

Dennis5587 · 12-18-2007, 11:42 PM

yeah, just saw that... thats at least twice we made it on there. Turbocad made it too, and they bashed the S*** out of him for being full of himself or something... as if reading 5 posts gives an accurate feel for someone...

Anyway, congrats

ninja0n3 · 12-19-2007, 08:24 AM

I've been flying through the 42 pages of this thread,
I think it'd be really cool if somebody could post a summary of what exactly has worked as far as the different ideas have gone.
I found the amount of information a bit overwhelming.

I guess the main issue that I'd like to see properly addressed would be the possibilities to solve the image ghosting on the windshield problem.
I believe I spent the last 2 hours reading this thread from start to finish, I'm just having a bit of trouble remembering it all.

So if those of you who had successful experiments could post their results, it would be really useful for those who just got on this thread and are interested by this kind of option!

Thanks

redleader36 · 12-19-2007, 09:16 AM

I'm sure you guys have already seen these, but how about these head mounted displays. they can be hacked very easily to accept rca video signals and they are lcds so you could put a VERY bright light source behind them. they already have a lens which may or may not help to focus on the windshield. There is also talk of being able to have an on screen display input. (see http://jakeofalltrades.wordpress.com) The biggest drawbacks would be that they are a greyscale display and their resolution is like 300 x 225. I have one of these i won in a contest a few months back on http://jakeofalltrades.wordpress.com. I would be willing to get another for a project like this.

LeZandre · 12-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by redleader36

jakeofalltrades.com

Are you absolutely sure of that URL ?

This one might be more interesting.

http://jakeofalltrades.wordpress.com...play/#more-112

redleader36 · 12-19-2007, 10:07 AM

updated, sorry. the site is http://jakeofalltrades.wordpress.com

quantum · 12-19-2007, 10:24 PM

E-bay Thermal Camera Listing (looks like a DV camcorder):
http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMAL-DIGITAL-...ayphotohosting

The seller is an importer, camera is dropped shipped from China. It was $800 when I saw it. Not as bad as 4 grand....but it don't look like the real deal.

LeZandre · 12-19-2007, 11:09 PM

If that's a thermal camera, then I am the Pope.

Clues: Removable Laser IR for standard “non thermal” imaging, CMOS sensor

Here's a link where you can buy them wholesale:

http://tekxondigital.trustpass.aliba...tion_Dv9f.html

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by LeZandre

If that's a thermal camera, then I am the Pope.

Clues: Removable Laser IR for standard “non thermal” imaging, CMOS sensor

Here's a link where you can buy them wholesale:

http://tekxondigital.trustpass.aliba...tion_Dv9f.html

Your holiness

, thanks for pointing out the Mercedes link on Hack a Day, I hadn't seen that system. Looks like I'm back to IR illuminators in my Fogs. (Or maybe my headlights, I've already got em open to clean my HID retrofits)

For anyone else who hasn't, about 4min in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5EMT05Tpac

Though they don't address what happens when two S Classes pass each other (also curious what happens if two S Classes are driving next to each other while using the Sonic ranging, but I digress)

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 01:42 AM

we made hackaday....sweet deal. Thank god ididn't post what i wanted to or else people would now a little secret i'd rather not share with the outside world.

I'm back from playing with UAVs and microdisplays for a day or so. Still no car. My x50v was run over by a car on monday, which is all the car action i've had in awhile. Also means no more review projects till my replacement arrives. There are a few things i was curious about

TOTHE VISITORS
how did you find us BEFORE hackaday? Lots of you only have posts in this thread. Please, i ask that if you have anything to add or any expertise to help us with, feel free. gleaning information is fun, but if everyone takes, it will take us longer to reach out goal

PS, Redleader36...you and i have to have a talk. You just helped me in another project of min, and i think we can come up with something. Sady, the christmas rush has made these things inflate back to regular price, so i'll wait till march before going back to it. Kinda makesem feel happy about not getting that xybernaut POMA now. As for headmounted displays while driving...i'll tell you why a monocular is abad idea in a pm if you pm me back

.

TO OUR MP3CAR VETERANS
quantum, i see you're being mr. big spender lol. One of us ad to do it.'m curious on a few optics at www.surplusshed.com. will any of them help us? they're good guys

shotgun, miss ya man. i learend C++ while i wasaway, so eventually i'll get to linux and java

. How has the nitemax been holding up in your casing? have you had any issues or problems? How has the focusing been?

Lezandre, always a guiding light. Keep it up. Why aren't you mortal again?

alti...where the hell are you?

Still waiting on my christmas present form last year. Yeah...tell me about it I'll get a car eventually. I have my prototype still sitting there. I still am having troubles with direct sunlight and stuff, however, in the night time, it should work fine.

has anyone been working with Iguidance to get a nice map overlay yet? I had a piece of software once that made some windows transperant, which was cool, but i would rather have a better system.

Also, has anyone found a better mirror mode video driver than that prank one i found a while back?

If someone could develop either one of thosetwo things, that would be awesome

If you need me, use email. Shotgun, there's something kinda cool about the nitemax ccds you should know and we should play with. it'll be worth it, trust me

On a side note, anyone have any experience with LiDAR? Would love some help on it for a project of mine.

LeZandre · 12-20-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Your holiness

, thanks for pointing out the Mercedes link on Hack a Day, I hadn't seen that system.

Glad to be of service.

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Looks like I'm back to IR illuminators in my Fogs. (Or maybe my headlights, I've already got em open to clean my HID retrofits) .

I've allready gone that way by mounting six NiteMax IR LED modules outside my car.
The IR component of my halogen headlights washes them out completely, so the Mercedes way of seeing in the dark would be a definitely better approach.
Slam some high-beam projectors on the car and filter out the daylight component.

The only difficulty I'm experiencing at the moment is finding a source for affordable IR-pass-through-filters for such a system, that will ship to Europe. (Suggestions for syppliers -or DIY solutions- are most welcome.)

Blinding the CCD for daylight isn't that much of a problem, as developed un-exposed slides should do fine. Developed exposed photograph film doesn't cut it, and two layers of it make the image go blurry. Maybe I didn't expose it long enough, as the film is only brown instead of the desired black.

Or did anyone come up with a another solution for cutting out the glare caused by streetlights, head- and tail-lights from other cars ? (Polarised filters, or maybe a hardware hack performed on the NiteMax's electronics?)

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 02:27 AM

Lezandre, how big do you want those IR Pass through filters to be? If your'e intending to cover the CCD istelf, let me now, because mark and i were talking about that about three nights ago. i did some research and ebay has a few for $25+ and there's this nitendo wii IR thing that i'm considering buyign for $7 shipped. It won't be here until janurary though. Other sources are old remotecontrols and IR windows from remote controleed devices. I've tried some caremasand mark tried some remotecontrols, btu their windwos are either green tinted or purple tinted. If you are willing to experiment with them, lmk because i'll beputting it off until afteri repair mypocketpc and my thinkpad.

worse comes to worse, i'll ship it to you.

http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm
^ a cheap place with quality gear.

How is daylight a problem? i've never expereinced any issues to make it need any filters while outside with a nitemax...sned me a pic to show mewhat you're talking about please

The glare can ony really be cut out software wise. i read an interesting article a week ago where someone was trying to develop a way to create the perfect image when you are in a bright area and someoen is in a dark area. He found that he needed 4 different gain settings to do it. The CCD iris decideshow much light its going to let inbased on the surroundings, but if a bright light shines, an d you have to remember that these lights are inten sely bright in order to turn "night in to day" kinda, you either sacrifice the whole image or you take the pain. therefore, you might need an anitglare script in the viewing software that identifies the halo and, at the very least, minimizes the distracting effects. you really can't have this cake and eat it too unless you use multiple ccds taking the same image and use software to instantaneously combine the images into one perfect image.

edit...this looks interestin g though...
PRECISION 25MM DIA BANDPASS INTERFERENCE FILTER 670 NM 10 +/- 2 NM FWHM
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pm1023.html

maybe something along those lines under the same premise? then again, the lights spit out IR so it really won't work.

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 02:38 AM

oh, for those of you possibly going the projector route...

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2621.html

these ar rather cool too

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3692.html

lezan dre, theydidnt have any passthrough

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 05:18 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

we made hackaday....sweet deal. Thank god ididn't post what i wanted to or else people would now a little secret i'd rather not share with the outside world.
....
shotgun, miss ya man. i learend C++ while i wasaway, so eventually i'll get to linux and java

. How has the nitemax been holding up in your casing? have you had any issues or problems? How has the focusing been?
....
If you need me, use email. Shotgun, there's something kinda cool about the nitemax ccds you should know and we should play with. it'll be worth it, trust me

...

Hey man!, I've been lurking around but haven't done much of anything project-wise since summer. Had a lot of medical stuff going on in the family and hammered at work. Though starting to get going again.

C++ eh? That was one of my first languages (early 90s), but to be honest, I used it pretty much like C with some extras at the time

, OO didn't gel for me until a long time after. Though I've been fumbling with it here and there tweaking OSS stuff.

Most of the car electronics have been sitting on my desk unfortunately. The only problem I had with the cameras was one of the lenses, the jury rigged auto-iris connector broke.

Feel like sharing the CCD info? I'll pm you my email.

Quote: Originally Posted by LeZandre

...
I've allready gone that way by mounting six NiteMax IR LED modules outside my car.
The IR component of my halogen headlights washes them out completely, so the Mercedes way of seeing in the dark would be a definitely better approach.
Slam some high-beam projectors on the car and filter out the daylight component.
...
Or did anyone come up with a another solution for cutting out the glare caused by streetlights, head- and tail-lights from other cars ? (Polarised filters, or maybe a hardware hack performed on the NiteMax's electronics?)

I tried it too (I think it's in the first video), you can barely see it, some optics might have improved it, but not nearly enough to be usable, though the big illuminators I have might be a different story. I'll have to dig out the tape I made, I thought you could see it on the houses around 250 ft away that are under streetlights.

Where I left off with the glare problem, well, polarizers seem to help, but an auto-iris by itself is not good enough (unless maybe a visible light filter is in front of the camera).

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

...
How is daylight a problem? i've never expereinced any issues to make it need any filters while outside with a nitemax...sned me a pic to show mewhat you're talking about please

The glare can ony really be cut out software wise. i read an interesting article a week ago where someone was trying to develop a way to create the perfect image when you are in a bright area and someoen is in a dark area. He found that he needed 4 different gain settings to do it. The CCD iris decideshow much light its going to let inbased on the surroundings, but if a bright light shines, an d you have to remember that these lights are inten sely bright in order to turn "night in to day" kinda, you either sacrifice the whole image or you take the pain. therefore, you might need an anitglare script in the viewing software that identifies the halo and, at the very least, minimizes the distracting effects. you really can't have this cake and eat it too unless you use multiple ccds taking the same image and use software to instantaneously combine the images into one perfect image.
...

So back to the computer controlling the Iris I guess? I did a quick look at video overlay mixers, WOW. lot's of money and you'd still need a PC to control the mixing. You'd be better off with a dedicated PC for it. Though I wonder how often you would actually need to analyze frames to get decent performance, I bet you could get a way with 3-5 times a second, and considering glare is "big", I bet you could use a smaller frame for analyzing.

LeZandre · 12-20-2007, 06:01 AM

Hi Genesisfactor & Shotgunefx

I'm thinking the Mercedes way.
Put IR through filters in front of standard halogen high beam projectors to create 'cheap' IR floodlights, as to increase the range of IR visiblity.
I need to cut out the visible light factor or 'daylight', so I won't blind traffic coming towards me.

I've got two rectangles of about 9 x 25 cm space left in my front bumper to put those projectors. The price of two 55W high beam projectors wont exceed $ 70 by much.
Think in the way of a homemade blackout set my American colleagues in Iraq are using on their Hummers.

http://www.usnightvision.com/Blackou...ed_Filters.htm

With putting a removeable IR-throug- filter in front of the lens of the NiteMax, by night, I hope to cut out most of the visible light coming from the other traffic. But those project a lot of IR as well, so -as you mention- it won't be the best option to cut those darn lights out. At least I hope to help the NiteMax to function in IR only mode so it won't try to mix IR and colour information on my 7" TFT.

Placing the filter in between the CCD and the lens isn't an easily removeable option. It needs to be removeable because by day I use the colour NiteMax to offer the passengers on the back-seat a view on the road ahead.

From the information provided by Oerlikon, I gather Mercedes is using the same hardware strategy. But logically thinking, they must have some software caring for the video signal as well.

At the moment I'm cooking up a contraption to use two CCD's in parallel. One with a 8mm lens, and another with a 12mm lens. (Mostly because I don't have a 10 mm lens to experiment with.) Using the 8 mm lens provides me with a nice broad view of the road ahead. Because of the deformed depth scale, assuming the distance to an object in front is a tad difficult. No worries in this department with a 12 mm lens, but it's field of view is a bit narrow.

Using the digital 2X zoom on an 8mm lens has the same effect as if you were switching to a 12 mm lens, but you lose a lot of resolution this way.

To me, the most difficult bit in the whole affair seems to be to fit a momentary-close-switch on the steering wheel. Hard enough, taking into consideration my steering-wheel has no switches on it at all. (Exept for the horn, that is. But I can hardly cannibalise that.)