Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 44

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 06:44 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by LeZandre

Hi Genesisfactor & Shotgunefx

I'm thinking the Mercedes way.
Put IR through filters in front of standard halogen high beam projectors to create 'cheap' IR floodlights, as to increase the range of IR visiblity.
I need to cut out the visible light factor or 'daylight', so I won't blind traffic coming towards me.

I've got two rectangles of about 9 x 25 cm space left in my front bumper to put those projectors. The price of two 55W high beam projectors wont exceed $ 70 by much.
Think in the way of a homemade blackout set my American colleagues in Iraq are using on their Hummers.

http://www.usnightvision.com/Blackou...ed_Filters.htm

With putting a removeable IR-throug- filter in front of the lens of the NiteMax, by night, I hope to cut out most of the visible light coming from the other traffic. But those project a lot of IR as well, so -as you mention- it won't be the best option to cut those darn lights out. At least I hope to help the NiteMax to function in IR only mode so it won't try to mix IR and colour information on my 7" TFT.

Placing the filter in between the CCD and the lens isn't an easily removeable option. It needs to be removeable because by day I use the colour NiteMax to offer the passengers on the back-seat a view on the road ahead.

From the information provided by Oerlikon, I gather Mercedes is using the same hardware strategy. But logically thinking, they must have some software caring for the video signal as well.

At the moment I'm cooking up a contraption to use two CCD's in parallel. One with a 8mm lens, and another with a 12mm lens. (Mostly because I don't have a 10 mm lens to experiment with.) Using the 8 mm lens provides me with a nice broad view of the road ahead. Because of the deformed depth scale, assuming the distance to an object in front is a tad difficult. No worries in this department with a 12 mm lens, but it's field of view is a bit narrow.

Using the digital 2X zoom on an 8mm lens has the same effect as if you were switching to a 12 mm lens, but you lose a lot of resolution this way.

To me, the most difficult bit in the whole affair seems to be to fit a momentary-close-switch on the steering wheel. Hard enough, taking into consideration my steering-wheel has no switches on it at all. (Exept for the horn, that is. But I can hardly cannibalise that.)

As far as IR band pass filters, have you looked at Edmund Optics?

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...172=D#Products

Maybe you could hack one of those wireless aftermarket stereo steering wheel controls for the switch, or just say hell with it and put it with the door controls or some other place easily accessible.

redleader36 · 12-20-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

As for headmounted displays while driving...i'll tell you why a monocular is abad idea

I was more thinking of taking the head mounted display apart and using the lcd instead of that 1980s camcorder viewfinder crt you guys were playing with around pages 10-15(somewhere in there).

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 08:41 AM

A thought...

Maybe projectors and what not are not the best source for lighting. Doing some digging (Damn you guys for the wasted hours!

), I started to think along other lines.

If this is primarily for long range illumination, the pattern we would want is not going to be the same as most oem and aftermarket lights. We want more of a spot than a wide angle beam.

What about PAR lights? The lights for stage and aircraft? You can get them for 12v, cheap, all kinds of beam angles, and they make cheap enclosures for them (DJ shops, theatrical, etc).

Size wise, it looks like PAR36 seems doable. (Seems to be hard to find Par16 bulbs with very narrow beam, but would be nice as they are so small)

The big problem is that a lot of the bulbs have an IR blocking coating ( CAPSYLITE?) that redirects the IR back towards the bulbs but I don't think they all have them.

Check these bulbs out. (They won't work for this app as they are coated, but anyway)

50w 700 lumens - 6 degrees

No my math might be way off (or my understanding), but with six degrees, at a range of 600 feet, the beam will be 100ft wide, dividing the lumens by the area in sq meters (729.288m) gives 0.96 lux. Now of course, this doesn't account for atmospheric attenuation, etc, but you'll also have two lights, so it should be over 1 lux.

With a 5 degree beam, it works out to about the same, but at 1000ft.

No of course, this is all visible light, not sure what there IR profile is like, but at least it give an idea and they are cheap

americasfuture2 · 12-20-2007, 08:47 AM

ha, i came across this the other day, and now i see it posted on hackaday. great site. looks like a good project too!

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by redleader36

I was more thinking of taking the head mounted display apart and using the lcd instead of that 1980s camcorder viewfinder crt you guys were playing with around pages 10-15(somewhere in there).

I had no idea how bright the CRT would be (or if it would be possible to goose it higher), so I figured I'd give it a shot as the camera was trash.

When are those damn laser cell phone projectors coming out!

PopSci.com Hands On - Texas Instruments Pico Projector

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http://www.lightblueoptics.com/technology.htm

I had a feeling they were optimistic when they were hinting at this year.

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 08:59 AM

Funny, doing some more searching led me to this patent for military aircraft.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/69...scription.html

Here's the interesting tidbit for us...

Quote:

It is estimated that the incandescent PAR lamp 32 produces about 7 times more light energy as infrared light than as visible light.

As far as I can tell, they are referring to general PAR type lamps as the invention from what I can see is the housing.

LeZandre · 12-20-2007, 10:50 AM

Sorry guys.

Non of those lights to be found at the aircrafts stationned at my base.

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 11:07 AM

hmmm...okay, my i ask, are you using a diffuser on your IR leds? murgurg and i had a talk about that nd he says everything was amazing after he put it on, atleast for dealing wth the spots.

For the IR pass filter, do you think a rotating piece of glass will do it, that is user controlled from the front of the vehicle? It will swivel over the lens when you need it, and swivel back out of the way when you dont?

Shotgun- geeez medical stuff...i'll send you mail later on today, we'll talk. hehe, i know what you mean about the project. life and other things just leech time from little projects like this. meddlesome things...
hehe, i shouldnt' say learned C++ as much as started it. I'm starting to believe that my mind is not object oriented lol.

i honestly wonder if that swivel filter idea couldn't be put to use with a polarized lens. i should research the differences between circular andlinear polarization.

as for these high powered IR lights, i say again, remember my high powered Ir laser from form the original nitemax thread? lol, let's not build something that has the smae intensity as HIDs, or greater, but won't allow you the comfort of shielding your eyes, thus damaging them....

...besides...what si wrong with the standard LEDs...you know...other than the fact that they are standard lol. If i remember correctly, the nitemax used that GAIN button for far away darker things. why not just do the equivalent of that if you're not using the nitemax lcd,or use it if you are? i mean,with this project, the HUD is probably goingto be the nitemax lcd,so that might work out....

...then again that's up for debate until someone actually does it. what say you LeZandre?

LeZandre · 12-20-2007, 12:17 PM

I already tried the standard LED's in two different ways, both outside the vehicle.

The first time I put them all (6 modules) together a clear plastic box. That gave me a flashlight like beam that carried about 30 meters and gave me an illuminated spot of about 3 meters in diameter.

The second time I put them 2 by 2 behind circular lenses I took from bike headlamps, thus effectively polarising the beams horizontally. With the low beams of I managed to illuminate the street in front of the car for about 15 meters far, and 7 meters wide.

With the low beams on they were drowned out completely.

I have a polarising filter lying around somewhere. I'll give that a go during the weekend.

Oh yes, your remark on using the NiteMax's LCD for the HUD.
Currently I'm still driving around with the 7" TFT on my dash.
It already has its brightness turned up to full.

That's why I'm focussing my attentions on getting the IR illumination as powerful as reasonably feaseable, and eliminating the "traffic-glare" as much as possible.

With my setup I can compare the image on the 7" with the NiteMax's, so I do can confirm the GAIN setting should help a lot in what you're trying to accomplish.
Maybe not to an extent you won't need any IR illumination, but you can indeed go a long way without.

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 02:29 PM

you don't want to polarize the beam, you want to diffuse it. it should yield your more satisfactory results

Also, if you're usig this with your headlights, you should know that the nitemax cd is not just an IR camera, but it sees the visible light spectrum as well. If you want, have two arrays of LEDs, one that goes on if and only if you decide not to use your headlights, and the other to work in conjuction with your headlights These leds should be spaced out to give you a better view of the world around you, letting yoru headlights concentrate on the road. Use a diffuser to these too and it will give you the effect of a lantern instead of a flashlight with a wide spread

Jirka Jirout · 12-20-2007, 04:18 PM

Has anyone tried to use a regular halogen bulb (H3/H7) with a filter that blocks the visible light and only lets the IR light thru?

Especially with a little lower voltage, these bulbs produce enough IR light to work with, but I only tested them for night vision devices, not CCD cameras. Now I am tempted to convert the two extra hi-beam reflectors on my V480 to IR reflectors, but not sure whether it would be usable with a CCD camera.

quantum · 12-20-2007, 04:32 PM

Hey guys,

I see the conversation has turned to illumination using IR filters and such. For what it's worth, some of the cheapie filters let through a little visible light, and that light will be in the red color spectrum. At least some of the ones I've seen, with the exception of military grade, do that.

#1 thought to ponder: Most states outlaw ANY red visible light (even dim red light) facing forward on a moving vehicle.

#2 thought to ponder: Forward facing IR will be seen clear as a bell on traffic light cameras, and also would trigger the light change, making them SO illegal. Try explaining THAT to the judge!

"Honest, yer honor, I was just trying to get a greater range outta my NiteMax!"

Probably posted before, but some good reading on IR and traffic lights
http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/176/44/

Just my 2 cents worth, happy motoring!

shotgunefx · 12-20-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by quantum

Hey guys,

I see the conversation has turned to illumination using IR filters and such. For what it's worth, some of the cheapie filters let through a little visible light, and that light will be in the red color spectrum. At least some of the ones I've seen, with the exception of military grade, do that.

#1 thought to ponder: Most states outlaw ANY red visible light (even dim red light) facing forward on a moving vehicle.

#2 thought to ponder: Forward facing IR will be seen clear as a bell on traffic light cameras, and also would trigger the light change, making them SO illegal. Try explaining THAT to the judge!

"Honest, yer honor, I was just trying to get a greater range outta my NiteMax!"

Probably posted before, but some good reading on IR and traffic lights
http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/176/44/

Just my 2 cents worth, happy motoring!

I think that's the big deal with the Mercendes NV. I think the big deal with the optics are the filters to stop it from bugging traffic cameras and emitting red. It was in one of the dozens of things I was reading last night, though I can't find the link at the moment.

As far as #1. I'm not too worried depending on how much red it's putting out. I never seem to get hassled for things like that (no front plate etc).

On #2, I don't think most people (if anyone) would notice them on CCTV as if you looked at the image alone, it would just look like lights.

If you used narrow spots like I was thinking, at 6ft, the cone of light is only 1ft wide, I'm too groggy to do the math, but I think you'd have to be pretty far from a traffic light to illuminate it on semi-level ground, it may be a non-issue.

Anyone in the army?
http://www.phantomlights.com/vehicle.htm

Genesisfactor · 12-20-2007, 06:54 PM

hehe, hate to say it but shotgun is right. it been over a year since we talked about he legals

.

also, seems that this MIRT use a555 timing IC at 10hz i believe? Seeing that most light form cars, buildings, streetlights, and even the traffic lights themselves, give off IR light, i don't think a steady IR lamp would cause it to trip unless you blinked it 10 times a second lol.

i think, form an HUD standpoint, our biggest problem is optics, not illumination. quantum, i invite you to perue throhg surplus shed so that we can make a focusable manifying lens array

quantum · 12-20-2007, 07:57 PM

Yabbut...

I don't think the "illegal" part is tripping the light so much as having a device that could trip the light, which is an IR emitter. At least that's what I walked away from that hack article from.

Picture a $7.00/hr municpal employee assigned the task of flipping through red light camera shots looking for this bright white IR signature coming from something other than the headlamps. "The snap shot of the camera could have been taken during that 1/10th of a second, let's put his license plate number on the "send ticket" pile and see what happens."

Then again, a carPC in general in might raise alarm from a cop on the side of the road who sees the monitor glow and thinks yer watching movies while driving or something.

I prefer avoiding a problem when I can rather than dealing with one. Chances are you could argue the point in court and maybe even win, but it's just a hassle.

Gonna cruise that surplusshed site. But what I think would really help me understand the concept of the actual HUD is when I get all the parts so I can bench test it with an image. Right now, it's basically a mirror in a plastic box.

I am just thinking out loud, but I'm pretty sure the bent mirror does more than magnify the image. A few ray traces lead me to believe it also wraps the image, which would offset the optical distortion on the windshield. A simple demonstration would be to face your palms together and curl your fingers. That's kinda what the mirror looks like in realtionship to the inside of the windshield.