Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer - Page 8

jammy_basturd · 04-25-2006, 05:37 AM

Hey, just thought I'd add my ideas rather than start a very similar thread. I've been following this for a about a week and read through it several times.

I was wondering whether anyone has looked into making a system very similar to the ones above but using the ideas behind a DIY projector, like these?

I was thinking you could use ultrabright white LEDs as the light source, shone through a small (2.5-52) active matrix LCD screen, then pass this through the relevant filters and lenses. I was also planning with mine to use a very thin plastic screen on top of the dash to project onto, rather than projecting onto the windscreen. This solves the problems of placing tints onto the windscreen (which in the UK could be a legality issue), and I can also motorise this so it can be withdrawn into the dash when not needed?

Another advantage of this is that you can have greater control over the brightness of the screen. I was thinking of using an LDR to regulate the brightness of the white LEDs, so if there is a car coming towards you with headlights on, or real bright daylight, or going through tunnels, etc, the LEDs would adjust the brightness accordingly.

The one last advantage I thought this would give is with the control it gives you over the reflection/refraction angles and ghost images. Because you would essentially only be projecting the image through one enlarging lense and onto the viewing surface you can set up the viewing angle of the screen precisely and you don't need to worry about the curvature of the windscreen?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Its a bit of a rough idea so far, haven't had time to sit down and work anything out on paper yet.

shotgunefx · 04-25-2006, 05:49 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by jammy_basturd

Hey, just thought I'd add my ideas rather than start a very similar thread. I've been following this for a about a week and read through it several times.

I was wondering whether anyone has looked into making a system very similar to the ones above but using the ideas behind a DIY projector, like these?

I was thinking you could use ultrabright white LEDs as the light source, shone through a small (2.5-52) active matrix LCD screen, then pass this through the relevant filters and lenses. I was also planning with mine to use a very thin plastic screen on top of the dash to project onto, rather than projecting onto the windscreen. This solves the problems of placing tints onto the windscreen (which in the UK could be a legality issue), and I can also motorise this so it can be withdrawn into the dash when not needed?

Another advantage of this is that you can have greater control over the brightness of the screen. I was thinking of using an LDR to regulate the brightness of the white LEDs, so if there is a car coming towards you with headlights on, or real bright daylight, or going through tunnels, etc, the LEDs would adjust the brightness accordingly.

The one last advantage I thought this would give is with the control it gives you over the reflection/refraction angles and ghost images. Because you would essentially only be projecting the image through one enlarging lense and onto the viewing surface you can set up the viewing angle of the screen precisely and you don't need to worry about the curvature of the windscreen?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Its a bit of a rough idea so far, haven't had time to sit down and work anything out on paper yet.

Well I think it's pretty much the same tact. The nitemaxes are 2.5 lcd, you can control the back lighting brightness as well. Just a motorized pot IIRC. Most of us are planning on some sort of reflector instead of directly on the windshield. When you say reflector, are you thinking an opaque screen?

I'm interested in fresnels myself (see above), though still have concerns about the sun concentrating too much heat in a spot.

jammy_basturd · 04-25-2006, 06:34 AM

Lol, yea, I've just been reading through the results of a search (sorry, should of done that before posting). I spose it is the same as what your doing. I was planning on mounting the LCD projector part in a box right under the windscreen, within the dash. The image from the LCD then gets projected through a lense to enlarge it and then through another lense to get it to project straightly on to the viewing screen (CD case or similar). Lol, the more I think about it the more I think I'm not bringing anything new to the table, just the fact that i'm projecting it forward towards the driver (so no need for flipping/mirroring the image).

Shadow · 04-25-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

I'm interested in fresnels myself (see above), though still have concerns about the sun concentrating too much heat in a spot.

Fresnels act differently than your average magnifying glass. One way results in diffused light and one way results in collimated(concentrated) light. If you're using the fresnel to magnify the image, the ridges will be away from the panel focusing the light toward your eye(or windshield or whatever). Any light going the other way into the fresnel will spread the light out along its whole area.

There's also another easy way out of this that nobody's even thought of. You're looking at cutting into your dash already, why not just make a little motorized flap that covers up the whole deal when the car's off?

shotgunefx · 04-25-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Shadow

Fresnels act differently than your average magnifying glass. One way results in diffused light and one way results in collimated(concentrated) light. If you're using the fresnel to magnify the image, the ridges will be away from the panel focusing the light toward your eye(or windshield or whatever). Any light going the other way into the fresnel will spread the light out along its whole area.

There's also another easy way out of this that nobody's even thought of. You're looking at cutting into your dash already, why not just make a little motorized flap that covers up the whole deal when the car's off?

I've been reading up on fresnels, but not much experience. Just what I've read from time to time when thinking about building a projector.

I'd think that if that's the case, the only sun problem you might have is glare at high noon.

I was thinking along the lines of being able to cover it, more for inspection purposes though. I'm lucky, I've got a nice spot for it under the gauge cowel so I only would have to cut a lid in the cowel itself and I've got more a few spares laying around.

Genesisfactor · 04-25-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jammy_basturd

Hey, just thought I'd add my ideas rather than start a very similar thread. I've been following this for a about a week and read through it several times.

I was wondering whether anyone has looked into making a system very similar to the ones above but using the ideas behind a DIY projector, like these?

I was thinking you could use ultrabright white LEDs as the light source, shone through a small (2.5-52) active matrix LCD screen, then pass this through the relevant filters and lenses. I was also planning with mine to use a very thin plastic screen on top of the dash to project onto, rather than projecting onto the windscreen. This solves the problems of placing tints onto the windscreen (which in the UK could be a legality issue), and I can also motorise this so it can be withdrawn into the dash when not needed?

Another advantage of this is that you can have greater control over the brightness of the screen. I was thinking of using an LDR to regulate the brightness of the white LEDs, so if there is a car coming towards you with headlights on, or real bright daylight, or going through tunnels, etc, the LEDs would adjust the brightness accordingly.

The one last advantage I thought this would give is with the control it gives you over the reflection/refraction angles and ghost images. Because you would essentially only be projecting the image through one enlarging lense and onto the viewing surface you can set up the viewing angle of the screen precisely and you don't need to worry about the curvature of the windscreen?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Its a bit of a rough idea so far, haven't had time to sit down and work anything out on paper yet.

hehe, been there. I was going to make it raise by a small system of drawstrings from laying on the dash. Its a good idea, except since its projecting onto a film form the opposite side, the whole world knows you have something on in your car, and is illegal in my area 9since it looks like light is being emitted from the dash as well). I was thinking a roof top projector, and then came the point "how?" Well, my car is small. If it was an SUV or mini van, i'd hit this completely differently, but i like my economical compact sports cars.

I haven't had the curvature of my windsheilf be a problem, just the inverting of the pictures isnce it does produce a mirror image.

Also, i had a company, da-screen or something, do the calculations for me. You only need about 350-450 nits to appropriately illuminate the screen (thier holoscreen), if i remember correctly. It won't take too much do iluminate the screen in the day time at that distance, esp if you use an LCD. Filters that you'd need...i don't know....the resident optics guys will lead you better in that respect.

jammy_basturd · 04-26-2006, 04:32 AM

Hmmm, I was thinking an anti-reflective film on one side of the viewing screen so people from in front of the car can't see theres something there?

NiteMax Mark · 04-26-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Genesisfactor

hehe, been there. I was going to make it raise by a small system of drawstrings from laying on the dash. Its a good idea, except since its projecting onto a film form the opposite side, the whole world knows you have something on in your car, and is illegal in my area 9since it looks like light is being emitted from the dash as well). I was thinking a roof top projector, and then came the point "how?" Well, my car is small. If it was an SUV or mini van, i'd hit this completely differently, but i like my economical compact sports cars.

I haven't had the curvature of my windsheilf be a problem, just the inverting of the pictures isnce it does produce a mirror image.

Also, i had a company, da-screen or something, do the calculations for me. You only need about 350-450 nits to appropriately illuminate the screen (thier holoscreen), if i remember correctly. It won't take too much do iluminate the screen in the day time at that distance, esp if you use an LCD. Filters that you'd need...i don't know....the resident optics guys will lead you better in that respect.

I'm not aware of any way to change the back-light brightnes from the NiteMax's LCD Display. It is possible to change the LCD Contrast and make the image darker and lighter.

For anyone with enough patience, you can disassemble the LCD Module in the NiteMax. With a little care, you can strip the back-light assembly from the LCD Module (It's somewhat modular) and have a semi-transparent LCD in a metal frame.

At the very least, you could change the back-light to something brighter or a different color. With some clever optics, you could have the beginnings of a projection display.

alpha_maverick · 04-26-2006, 10:59 PM

what happened to peoples post?

Genesisfactor · 04-27-2006, 02:23 AM

i wasnt' using the nitemax's LCD, i was being imaginative and using fiberoptic an a specialy item that is pretty rare and hard to find. Acutally was talkign about it today. Played with FO before...applications are amazing if i could get the right tools and equipment, but its not pracitcal and really hard and i can't crunch the equations.

To jammy, and antiflective film, i think, will destroy the projected image. But its not the image that i'm worried about otehrs seeing, its the light that's reflected, period. Put seriously, try it before putting it in tthe car, i' highly interested in how that one turns out. If i had the cash, i'd be trying out all these ideas. I'm interestedin seeing how each of these play out,t he strenghts and weaknesses, and just the over all look and usefulness of them.

jammy_basturd · 04-27-2006, 04:34 AM

Ok, I have an 6.5" NEC Active matrix screen I'm winning on Fleabay at the moment. If I get it I don't mind ripping it apart to see what I can do with it.

Off the top of anyones head, does someone know where I can get a mixture of filters and thin films to experiment with in the UK?

Peoples · 04-27-2006, 06:07 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha_maverick

what happened to peoples post?

I deleted them because they were resposts, posted on page 3 & 4

shotgunefx · 04-27-2006, 12:04 PM

HUD glass came.

As a quick experiment, just knocked my lcd over in a fairly well lit room.

With flash (suprised you could see it at all, also stumped why there is no reflection on glass???)

Without.

For comparision, tried to do it with a CD cover. Couldn't. Every piece of plastic I tried looked like this. Weird. Must by one of the lcd films.

alpha_maverick · 04-27-2006, 12:11 PM

Little or no ghosting
excellent reflection
excellent transmission
no distortion

current judgement:

PERFECT!!!!

now you need to figure out how to use the lenses to adjust the focal distance out past 20 feet (the point at which our eyes no longer actively focus)

shotgunefx · 04-27-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha_maverick

Perfect!!!!

Looks promising, I'll do some more tests (and try some different glass regular/privacy ) for comparision.

Definitely will have to cut it down though. This thing full size in front of you on the dash? Not me, it would be like the Omen when the guy get's decapitated.