RedGTiVR6

Ok - so to answer your questions Soundguy, I can't remember where I found this information in AudioMulch, but here are the settings:

Input:

1. Analog 1
2. Analog 2
3. Analog 3
4. Analog 4
5. Analog 5
6. Analog 6
7. Analog 7
8. Analog 8
9. SPDIF 1
10. SPDIF 2
11. Reverb 1
12. Reverb 2
13. Return 1
14. Return 2

Output

1. Main Out 1-2
2. Main Out 1-2
3. Analog Out 1-2
4. Analog Out 1-2
5. Analog Out 3-4
6. Analog Out 3-4
7. Analog Out 5-6
8. Analog Out 5-6
9. Analog Out 7-8
10. Analog Out 7-8
11. Phones 1-2
12. Phones 1-2
13. SPDIF 1-2
14. SPDIF 1-2

I know I can get this same information by going to the Audio Input or Output pages and select the drop down and see what each one states to get this information, maybe that's where I got it and wrote it all down last night.

I just tried switching the Audio Input to be Sound In: 9 & 10 and the Audio Output to be Sound Out: 13 & 14 (to both correspond with SPDIF, as suggested earlier), but then it went to complete poo poo.

I've found that it doesn't actually matter what I put the Input to in AudioMulch, it doesn't change the way it sounds.

So, to answer your question Soundguy, I'm not sure how I'm getting audio to route from WinAmp or Foobar2000 through either Console or AudioMulch, I guess I'm not. I should note that I'm pretty lost on a lot of this since I don't do pro audio for a living, I only do car audio tuning and building....

So, any ideas on how to get it to go from WinAmp or Foobar2000 to either Console or AudioMulch? It this where the shifting the output channels from within WinAmp comes into play? the number you put in there would correspond to the Input side within AudioMulch for instance? I don't get audio out of both cans unless it's set the way it is now.

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Soundguy

Jan,

Try this leave the Winamp ASIO outputs assigned to the SPDIF channels 13/14(so leave "shift output" set at 12).

In the MOTU audio console control panel set the return assign to SPDIF 1-2. This is a really cool feature I see on this interface that allows you to route things between software porgrams. My Saffire can't do this, thus why I had to use an external SPDIF cable. Basically the Motu is taking signal from one of its outputs back to an input so it can be used by another software program. Then assign Main out to Main out 1-2 and headphones to main out 1-2 so you can monitor the Main out signal. With your setting before you where monitoring the SPDIF outs(from Winamp) with your headphones which was why you were hearing the clean audio.

Then in Console or Audiomulch use inputs 13 &14 which corespond to the return ins that are tapping into the SPDIF outs from Winamp. This should get the signal from Winamp into Console/AM. Set the output to Main out 1-2. Put a simple eq in the signal chain to verify its all working correctly.

So your signal chain should be:

Winamp -> out SPDIF 13/14 -> MOTU Return in 13/14 -> Console/AM in 13/14 -> VST plugins -> Console/AM out 1/2 -> MOTU outs 1/2 which you monitor with your phones.

If you get pops and clicks with this method still, then start to set your buffers higher. 512 then 1024 or higher as necessary until the pops and buzzes go away. It won't really matter how high you go here because all you're doing is playback so latency won't matter and you'll get less of a processor load.

Don't worry, software signal routing can be tricky because everything is virtual and an input doesn't necessarily correspond to the same output like it does with hardware(IN 1 won't always go to OUT 1 like on an amplifier). You'll get the hang of it once you play with the stuff a bit. Have fun!

Eric

RedGTiVR6

Sweet! It works! Other than some low end distortion (now using a set of Sony Pro headphones that we happen to have here at home since my other headphones are at work).

Only in AudioMulch though....

But that's ok. Once I've used AudioMulch a bit more, I'm actually liking it more than Console. There's more adjustability with it, and I can have the plug-ins open at the same time and make adjustments at the same time in another window.

So, now my next question comes in getting enough outputs via AudioMulch, which I'm guessing comes when I set the different Audio Outputs in AudioMulch. Once I set these to show more (for instance for each of the Aux ones showing in the screen shot above), then I should get more than just the two tabs for the items, right?

The reason I ask about this is that I'm running a 3 way front stage and a sub. So I need to be able to controll everything indipendently. It's easier to understand out of the box in Console in this regard, but I'm sure it's something simple for AudioMulch.

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RedGTiVR6

On another note, are either of you familiar with a software EQ that will allow you to type in a value and have it go there?

Most of the EQs I've found over the years aren't all that friendly for absolute fine tuning in that regards.

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Soundguy

Glad to hear its working for you! I haven't actually played with AudioMulch yet but I'll try it out in the next couple of days to see what its all about.

I think you have the right idea about the Aux outs. You would probably do something like assign Aux 1/2 to analog outs 1/2, aux 3/4 to analog 3/4,etc. Then when you add a crossover plug-in patch its outputs to the aux outs corresponding to your highs, mids, lows, and subs.

Soundguy

Almost all pro level plug-in Eqs I've used have this functionality and there are many out there. Here's a couple links to get you started looking:

http://www.kvraudio.com/
http://www.sweetwater.com/c712--Plug-Ins__Equalizers

The problem you will run into is not all eqs use the same algorithms for Q or bandwith so your settings from one device may not translate perfect to another. You should be able to get pretty close though. Good luck!

RedGTiVR6

What proggys are you going to be using?

Currently, I'm looking at Allocator for XO, obviously, but I'm needing EQ, time alignment, phase & gain.

I realize that Allocator can do a lot of this, but I'm not sure I should use Allocator for all of it.

I'm still trying to figure out how I want to actually run everything. ie. exactly how I want to route everything and in what order.

Do I want to run an instance of Allocator for each channel? Do I want to run an instance of Allocator for left and an instance for right and go from there? (Allocator has the capability of 2 in and 8 out).

I then need an EQ per channel (would be ideal to be able to select the frequencies and the Q for each channel, not sure if there's a program out there that will allow for that).

Then I need Time Alignment per channel.

Then I need Phase per channel.

Then I need gain per channel.

While in an ideal world, I wouldn't need a lot of this, in a car, with a full dash and a lot of the constraints we have to deal with, it's inevitable.

So...Now that I have it for SURE working....many thanks for that....I'll be playing with this in the car, connected to the laptop, to see what I can come up with.

So what software are you using for all of this?

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hans14914

Bloody expensive, but perhaps you should look at acourate or audiolense

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RedGTiVR6

I've been reading about these programs as well.

The thing is, when you consider the price of a H900 processor as an alternative, this is a SUPER cheap solution.

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Soundguy

Well, you're starting to get ahead of where I'm at right now. I'm still in the planning stages of my system. I haven't actually bought any hardware for my new truck build yet. But for what its worth I'll share my thoughts on what I'm thinking/planning.

I have a pretty good selection of plug-ins from my home studio so I'll probably start of with Waves and Voxengo stuff for eq, delay and limiting. I'm an advocate for parametric eqs instead of graphs, but its an individual choice. A lot of eq plugins will have gain and polarity already included so no real need to run a separate plug in for something simple like that. You can also usually choose either a mono or stereo Eq. The Waves eqs and many others give you the choice of how many bands of parametric eq you need. So if you only need 2 filters you can save on processing power.

Frequency Allocator looks pretty cool as far as a crossover goes. It does stereo 4 way so you should only need one instance of it unless you have different crossover points for your left and right. I'd have to check to make sure it does a mono sum for a single subwoofer. It also has a few bands of parametric eq onboard per channel already if you choose to use it. The onboard delay is stereo linked so not much help when it comes to car audio. I'll probably start with one of the free crossover plugins listed in the Wiki because I can already tell that hardware is going to completely eat up my budget for this stuff.

I'll approach the signal chain in the same way I do when tuning concert PA systems.

Overall 2 channel EQ (for general tone and to correct environmental issues, ie, your car rings at 400hz. It can be a graphic or parametric or both for that matter) -> Crossover -> Driver Eq (fix any problems with individual drivers, ie tweeter has a peak at 6khz) -> Delay (driver time alignment) -> Limiter(individual driver protection) -> Amp

Gain and Polarity could happen at many different points. At the crossover, at the eq or even the limiter.

If one was into it they could even add subharmonic synthesizers on the subchannel and aural exciters on the tweets and/or mids. But I don't want to get into a discussion of whether this is a good or bad idea.

One thing to be aware of with plugins if you are going for sound quality is digital head room. I've read that its a good idea to keep your levels around -6 to -12 DBfs to allow the processing algorithms to have some room for number crunching. They say that pushing digital processing to the limits of its math capabilities can be the source of what people complain of as the "harsh digital" sound. Good luck, have fun!

Edit: Ok, just checked Frequency Allocator. It does not as far as I could tell sum to mono for the subs. So if you run a mono sub you will need to add a plugin afterward that can do this.

Eric

RedGTiVR6

Any chance you might be able to suggest one of these?

I've been looking for a bit here and there and I'm not able to find a 31-band (or even a 61-band) EQ where I'm able to enter adjustments by number as well as by dragging the adjustment. So far, all I'm finding is EQs where I'm able to adjust by dragging, not by entering numbers.

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Soundguy

Are you looking for a graphic or parametric eq? By saying 31 band I'm assuming you want a graph and to be able to manually enter the gain adjustment right?

I almost always use parametric eqs these days(pro audio) so that's what I was referring to in my previous post. I'll look around for some graphics to see what I can find.

Eric

Soundguy

Just did a quick search on KVR audio for Graphic Eq.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode...f&q=graphic+eq

This probably isn't much help for you but there seems to be quite a few to choose from, so I 'd hope at least some of them would have what your looking for.

For what its worth,
Eric

durwood

I'm pretty sure I have told you this a few times before but here it is again (also in the wiki)

Electri-Q (free or pay because I know you like to pay)
http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php/Home/14/0/

/search

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