Software options for Tuning - Page 5

turbocad6 · 10-26-2006, 04:09 PM

I'm the oposite... I want it to sound as good to my front passenger as it does to me..... this is difficult to achieve, but not impossible..... to me there is nothing worse than getting it to sound sweet to the driver, & crap to the passenger...

I use hlcd's, horn loaded compression drivers, waveguides as there commonly known by the popularity of image dynamics own brand name.... there biggest plus is the driver point source is way under the dash, & the pathlengths are about as close to even as your going to get, mechanically, without going through the firewall, if I couldn't use these then, yeah, I guess I'd be a kickpanel kinda guy for my highs.... although there are now some real sweet alternatives, namely the byriliums...

edit:, & if you think that cause the drivers are down low, the front stage is going to be low, your mistaken.... my front stage is right in the center eye level of my windshield, & pinpoint acurate, to both driver & passenger..., when you close your eyes, the stage is out 4' past the windshield, I like to say that it sounds like maria or donna summers is stradling my hood

durwood · 10-26-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

I'm the oposite... I want it to sound as good to my front passenger as it does to me..... this is difficult to achieve, but not impossible..... to me there is nothing worse than getting it to sound sweet to the driver, & crap to the passenger...

I use hlcd's, horn loaded compression drivers, waveguides as there commonly known by the popularity of image dynamics own brand name.... there biggest plus is the driver point source is way under the dash, & the pathlengths are about as close to even as your going to get, mechanically, without going through the firewall, if I couldn't use these then, yeah, I guess I'd be a kickpanel kinda guy for my highs.... although there are now some real sweet alternatives, namely the byriliums...

edit:, & if you think that cause the drivers are down low, the front stage is going to be low, your mistaken.... my front stage is right in the center eye level of my windshield, & pinpoint acurate, to both driver & passenger..., when you close your eyes, the stage is out 4' past the windshield, I like to say that it sounds like maria or donna summers is stradling my hood

horns in a car...I never liked the ID horns but thats my taste. I could say the same about vocals nice and in the center and you can't even pinpoint where the sound is coming from either side of my vehicle. The speakers just fade away as if you were sitting in front of a live band or singer. The difference between my front stage mounted up high is that instruments on the far ends of the soundstage do not "dip" as they would with kicks.

I was beat by someone with ID horns...but he also had a lot of pyschoacoustics going on if you know what I mean. (Tweeters installed but not hooked up) Bah...I am not trying to debate. I just want software to do my processing. Now back to the topic...

EDIT: It's amazing what a nice pair of 3"s will do mounted at ear level (think ~200-8K).

RedGTiVR6 · 10-26-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

although there are now some real sweet alternatives, namely the byriliums...

I was gonna say, I don't have any rainbow in my car!

Quote:

edit:, & if you think that cause the drivers are down low, the front stage is going to be low, your mistaken.... my front stage is right in the center eye level of my windshield, & pinpoint acurate, to both driver & passenger..., when you close your eyes, the stage is out 4' past the windshield, I like to say that it sounds like maria or donna summers is stradling my hood

See, I've got the stage about 2' out to the sides of my mirrors and on some songs, about 3' in front my my front bumper.

Did I tune to to get to that point, hell no! I'm still trying to learn. However, my husband and I did build it so it would be able to do that! I just about peed my pants when I sat in the car right after Nick tuned it this last time. We're listening to the Dallas Symphony and Choir. I've never heard anything like that before. it was pure magic. All that with kicks and tweeters in the pillars.

I believe that to stick to one train of thought over all others is to get yourself stuck in a rut. If you can know and understand and utilize all trains of thought, I believe you will be a much better installer/tuner in the long run.

durwood · 10-26-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

I believe that to stick to one train of thought over all others is to get yourself stuck in a rut. If you can know and understand and utilize all trains of thought, I believe you will be a much better installer/tuner in the long run.

I am not debating that...just most cars with kicks that I have heard sound like a rainbow. My methods are more of a personal goal, to use what is available and to prove there are other ways...against the norm. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I am always open to ideas

I like that my system is setup to look factory. I like the sleeper stealth approach...no bling...no thrills...just what I need. Plus I won't get snow or slush in my kick panels.

I'd love to hear your car sometime, hopefully I see your car at a show sometime.

RedGTiVR6 · 10-26-2006, 06:43 PM

USACi finals.

Kansas City, MO

November 18-19th of this year.

http://www.usaciworldfinals.com/

It's not that far from ya!

durwood · 10-26-2006, 06:59 PM

I'd rather be competing too. I can't just stand by and watch everyone else have their fun.

When that time gets closer I will have to see...

RedGTiVR6 · 10-26-2006, 07:07 PM

Won't be able to compete at this event as it's an invitational finals event.

But there's always next season!

durwood · 10-26-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

Won't be able to compete at this event as it's an invitational finals event.

But there's always next season!

I thought you WERE inviting me? J/K I know how it works..unless you are a big shot you have to compete in enough shows.

And on other news...some screen shots of the kxproject with ufx and profx plugins...also screen shot of timebalance plugin. I wanted to used the small delay plugin but it ate up too much resources for all the channels. FOr some reason "the delay" doens't use anything. I will get more info.

turbocad6 · 10-26-2006, 11:02 PM

man, I really think it would be sweet to have the pc control all the processing...

as far as horns go, & not debating here either, but this is what I know of them... horns in a car are pretty nasty beasts... as dropped in, there harsh & abrasive, & they absolutely, 100% require 1/3 octave tuning....

alot of the cheaper horns are just going to be ok when tuned properly, but... even a cheapo set of horns for like $300-$400 will give you one thing pretty much guaranteed, & that is a really sweet imaging & stage.... it may not be able to play quite warm enough, & the extra crispness may not be there, but they'll at least give you that...

a really great set of horns can play down to 650 htz or so, & the imaging & staging is even more garenteed out of the box.....

a great set of horns can be tuned to being really sweet, like red discribes... she says peeing her pants, I more call it like shivers up your spine... it's just ear to ear, can't wipe the smile off your face... & it sounds real... real to the point that you'll here something & really mistake it for something that happened outside sometimes... close your eyes & the windshield & the whole car just disapears,, the performance is happening in front of your car....

once, I actually had to turn my system up & down like 3 times to be sure if the crickets I heard were really outside in the tree's or on the track I was listening too..

I actually scared the **** out of myself once with a biggy disc that I never heard.... it was a track, it started out with a rythm, A nice slower mellow tempo with a nice backbeat, system cranked, but the track starts out relatively low... all of a sudden a friggin jet engine comes from far left, right across the top of my car!!!! I mean I felt the f*in thing... now I happened to be going through the loop by jfk at the time.. & I sware to you, for like 2 or 3 seconds I really thought a friggin plane crossed directy over me, man, at high spl is also where horns accel, & they garrentee an awsome stage & great imaging, BUT

if you start getting into stuff like the beriliums, or even for that matter the majority of other really expensive all out spare no expense in r&d & construction speakers like morels, dyne & maybe 10 others, & compared them to horns, in a car like reds while sitting still & quiet, you will here subtle nuances just a bit cleaner more than likely, & simple things like the reverb of a guitar string, or a piano stroke, may sound just a bit more perfect...a drop of water in a pond maybe... or the throatiness of a womans vocals..

now don't get me wrong it'll sound real in my car, but when it comes down to absolute tonal quality & timbre, reds car will be a bit more refined than my car at normal listening levels,& it would sound "better" in that respect,that I would expect...

I would love to here the imaging & staging in your car... that's hard for me to really imagine.... I've heard a ton of supposedly good cars, & the majority don't impress me.... I've only heard a few cars out of many, that really sounded great.... I did even here one car once with the older beriliums, the ones with the shelves on them, & they were good, but they didn't blow me away... of course that's all in the tuning & install too...

what it comes down to with me is:

A great set of components properly installed will be able to give you really high tonal quality, warmth & realisim, this is what they pretty much garentee out of the box, or maybe well say that is there strong point, but will be a major feat to be able to get real pinpoint acuracy as far as staging & imaging is concerned, while horns will give you that out of the box,that is there strong point, but the major feat with them is in the tuning really & trying to reach the quality level of a great set of components...

to me niether is better or worse, there just different... the absolute best would have to be a really high end setup like red's, installed & tuned to achive the real challenge, which is the staging & imaging to perfection, I'm assuming red's pretty close, as an intermediate world champion, she has to be

I love my horns because they garentee me what I really want, & I can tune them to be really sweet, I'm a street system though, so I'm more concerned about what my car sounds like on the highway than in the lanes, my normal noise floor is going to be high enough that the subtleties will be lost anyway to a certain extent .... I'm also pretty sure that my front stage is stronger than red's, not saying her's is weak at all, but horns will have a bit more spl & are super efficient, they can actually inflict pain all by themselves

.......

sooo, after this unsolicited banter, if theres anything you should get from this it is:

....that's why the tuning end of the system is so important to me... without tuning my system is pretty much crap.... & it takes a real long time to tune a system like mine to sweet... & you can always feel like theres just a bit of tweek left... but eventually you get to the point that there is no frequency that you can take up or down for any improvements, & it's just right... if I could do that on my pc I'd be extremely happy... I could save the file, & I could play with tweeking to my hearts content... the alpine only gives 6 presets, which is managable, but with pc, I'd be able to do a bit more maybe...

durwood · 10-27-2006, 08:11 AM

Turbo- I totally understand what you are saying 100%. I think everything you stated is true. We are on the same page. My staging and imaging excels and I have scored near perfection on that everytime, my weak side has always been linearity...and for me horns would only make it worse. My midbass and sub-bass always seems to suffer a bit, so increasing the efficiency of my midrange only worsens it.

I would love to drop the dough on some focals, but I am a "get the most bang for your buck" kind of guy. If I can get close to top quality sound without going into debt and at fraction of the cost of the top dawgs, then I am happy. That's why if we can get this software thing figured out then my day is made.

In the words of Hannibal-"I love it when plan comes together."

Added: I hate when songs have police sirens in them...who's great idea was that? I don't know how many times I have been fooled!

durwood · 10-27-2006, 10:49 AM

More VST plugins...

Akai Quad Comp ($30)

4 Way crossover using FIR filters 6,12,18,24 dB range from 50-12,500Hz
2 channel only

http://www.akaipro.com/prodVSTplugins.php
Maybe multiple instances can be used to actually use it as a 4way instead of a 2 to 4 back to 2way? I don't know????

EQ31 (Free or donation)
Presets and user presets
http://habib.webhost.pl/vst_eq31.php

KarmaFX (free or donation)
31 band 6,12,24 db range simulating an analog EQ
http://www.karmafx.dk/

Linearphase EQ2
31 band linear phase EQ
http://www.geocities.jp/webmaster_of_sss/vst/index.html

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 11:36 AM

my midbass & subbass is real nice in my front stage... I'm using illusion audio carbon fibre 10's in my doors, & my doors weigh almost double what they weighed stock

my horns are illusion audios too, & they even top the image dynamics slightly in pure sq according to the few reviews of them from back then... there were only 1,000 sets of these ever built..., I like bang for the buck too, & this is part of the reason I choose this setup to begin with... gotta love ebay

I've got to start downloading these pluggins & try running them & see what the loads are.... & how reliable they can work togeather... I'm thinking initially of running this through the 700 in bypass mode...., but this'll do nothing for x-over testing & delay I guess, just pure eq initially...

FyreDaug · 10-27-2006, 11:41 AM

just using the 31band VST plugin in winamp and playing music I dont see many resources going into it. Maybe its other processing stuff that would slow it down, but I was thinking this would take some power to run. Idles 6-8% with it on, and 4-7% when its off

RedGTiVR6 · 10-27-2006, 11:42 AM

:d

turbocad6 · 10-27-2006, 11:42 AM

yeah, I'm curious about running everything, time delay & x-overs too... maybe it won't be so bad.....

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