audio over USB v. optical - Page 4

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 08:22 AM

I'm not sure that Durwood was speaking of that side of the software, but rather the drivers or the interface between this piece and the computer.

durwood · 02-07-2007, 08:23 AM

Yep

I should have clarified.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 08:31 AM

I think the drivers are going to make or break this project.

turbocad6 · 02-07-2007, 08:48 AM

see, that's one of the reasons I though it'd be better to start with an existing piece to modify rather than trying to reinvent this from scratch...

one thing I'm finding with PC audio is this:

even when we go all the way up to "professional" car audio, were still within the range of consumer based products... I mean there really aren't many $10,000 pieces of car audio equipment, besides some manufacturers making one off show off pieces, but in general, even pro car audio stuff is realistic for the average enthusiast, BUT

when it comes to PC audio, professional stuff takes on a whole new level, I mean most pro audio for the PC is designed with recording studio's in mind, & a $10,000 component is not unheard of in this realm, actually there is equipment that can be several times this... point being, now, were stepping into the realm of stupid money.... I remember looking into pro PC audio a good while back & seeing that the costs involved there can make the alpine f1 stuff look cheap in comparison....

also, as I said before, but just to repeat it a bit clearer again, virtually NO pro PC audio equipment or setups have anywhere near the obstacles or requirements that we have in a car.... no pro studio equipment really goes the way we go, with several drivers each on there own channel, but comprising just one "speaker" in the end, as far as full range sound...

in other words, even in a studio environment, a left channel is usually just a left channel, one full range signal for that channel, where we need either 2 or 3 separate channels, each providing a piece of this full range "left", & of course in the division of this signal, we also need to put it back together to behave as one, meaning proper x overs, & then phase shifting to realign & correct what the x over screwed up to begin with... add to this that sometimes time alignment is necessary within this one "left" output, to put the separated pieces back in proper alignment... I mean this just isn't done in a studio or professional environment...

I'm pretty gung ho about this & I want to really get this done.... I just need to know that this isn't an excercise in futility, which I really don't think it is at this point, but by the same token, I don't mind spending what it will take within reason, & if in the end, I would get the same or better results by just going with an f1 status processor, I would go that route.... I guess most here will want to keep this much cheaper than the f1 processor is, at a bit over $2,000 but I would spend even more than that if that's what it took to do it right & do it better than the f1 could provide....

****, I blame you mostly red, before all this hit the main stream here I was perfectly content just getting an alpine processor, I did look into pro audio on the PC before & just dismissed it as not practical, but all this research & stirring has gotten me to look at this again through different eyes... now you got me wanting even more

durwood · 02-07-2007, 08:54 AM

durwood · 02-07-2007, 09:02 AM

I think if we want a solution sooner than later, we could go the route of re-engineering something already available. I think slapping a line driver on the end of a pro audio piece of equipment would be the easiest. Or we can do it from the ground up taking a long time.

I will admit, I don't have the cash to throw at something like the F1....at least right now. I even had to be coaxed into buying my H701 by my buddy last year.

Now I have some VERY expensive obligations going on in the next year and a half and unless I win the lottery I don't see my financial status changing anytime soon. Typical- In other words, I want what I can't have. I know that inexpensive only gets you so far, but it should be reasonable in some respect to get this off the ground.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 09:03 AM

hehehehe

I'm all for taking an existing piece. Problem is, we first have to find a card that has the needed outputs and can be adapted to run on 12v DC.

Then from there we need to be able to swap out the parts...because quite honnestly, most of the RCA sockets I've seen on the USB/Firewire cards are maybe 5 cent parts.

durwood · 02-07-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

Then from there we need to be able to swap out the parts...because quite honnestly, most of the RCA sockets I've seen on the USB/Firewire cards are maybe 5 cent parts.

Agreed. What about a dongle type connection similar to the cards with breakout boxes? Then you could have optional cables. I jsut don't know how good it would be to have unshielded wires that close to each other though.

I was going to say does it really need 12V? I guess if it's external it would be the easiest. Either way to get a high voltage output, there has to be high enough voltage rails going to the output opamps to allow for headroom. The X-Merian only has +/-8V rails, which is created by a DC-DC conversion of wither the 3.3 or 5V voltage from the PSU. Even using 12V, you still need to have a DC-DC PS conversion to get +/- voltage rails high enough to allow for a high preamp voltage. I guess I answerd my own question.

turbocad6 · 02-07-2007, 10:00 AM

what do you think of the idea I mentioned of using an optical out from the pc, or firewire even, into a pro audio da converter?

apogee rosetta 800 very expensive, but looks like it would build a sick system..

then theres this, which looks much more affordable...

this looks like it would do the job well too...

any one of these would require rengineering of the power supplies, & these may be too extreme for anyone here even, but this is where my head is going.... help

I'm in the process of buying a house right now, & if I can pull this off without spending a small fortune I'd welcome that... it's just that I'm a sick boy, & when I look at something, I always want to see what's better, I mean if I'm going to go for "this", then for just a bit more I could go for "that", but once I'm up to "that", I may as well just go for "this".... well once I'm up to "this", then **** it, might as well just go for "this" & get it over with.... anyone understand that???

the way I see it, the f1 isn't the ceiling anymore

Dennis5587 · 02-07-2007, 10:12 AM

wouldn''t this all be accompolishable via just software... like why not just get 5 silverstone DAC's, and then figure out how to route them through software...?

At least this way it is pretty cheap for you choose your own level of involvement, you can add on as you go... if you only want 3 sets for your tweets, mids, and subs, then thats all you need, costing you only $300 in hardware... but if you want to have tweets, woofer, rears, and subs, then you get an extra one....

Or am I completely off?

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

what do you think of the idea I mentioned of using an optical out from the pc, or firewire even, into a pro audio da converter?

I'm not keene on using optical for the jitter issue. I've learned that optical isn't as desired as I thought it once was for the jitter problems. And to boot, not all mobos have optical outs right now.

Regarding Firewire, I'm not so sure about it right now for a first piece. Why? Not all mobos have fire wire (for instance- the board I'm running now in the car doesn't have it). For this first step, I think it needs to be on a platform that will suit the most people. Once we get that down, THEN we can move onto other options.

Quote:

apogee rosetta 800 very expensive, but looks like it would build a sick system..

then theres this, which looks much more affordable...

this looks like it would do the job well too...

any one of these would require rengineering of the power supplies, & these may be too extreme for anyone here even, but this is where my head is going.... help

I'm really worried about size there. I for one don't have anywhere left to put something like that in the car. At that point, we might as well go with the DBX drive rack and just modify the PSU like people have done in the past.

durwood · 02-07-2007, 10:16 AM

I just bought a house, a ring, and now have a wedding to pay for ahahahah.

The F1 is only a starting point. hehehe

We have already entered the realm of pro audio, that is almost limitless when you include software. What is better though? A DAC or Pro Audio equipment used to record the material in the first place? This thread kind of got derailed a while back. hahahaha. Wasn't this suppsoed to be about SPDIF v USB DAC's?

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Dennis5587

wouldn''t this all be accompolishable via just software... like why not just get 5 silverstone DAC's, and then figure out how to route them through software...?

we're not worried about the tuning aspect of this. We're worried about the hardware side of things.

Sure, you can get 5 seperate silverstone dacs, find somewhere to put them, find somewhere to wire up 5 usb cables, and power them, etc. We're talking about making what the market is missing right now.

durwood · 02-07-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

I'm really worried about size there. I for one don't have anywhere left to put something like that in the car. At that point, we might as well go with the DBX drive rack and just modify the PSU like people have done in the past.

Good point. Something the size of our H701 brainboxes or smaller.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-07-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by durwood

We have already entered the realm of pro audio, that is almost limitless when you include software. What is better though? A DAC or Pro Audio equipment used to record the material in the first place? This thread kind of got derailed a while back. hahahaha. Wasn't this suppsoed to be about SPDIF v USB DAC's?

yes, it was...lol

I'm realizing that even though I'm trying to keep the idea on a path, it keeps wandering...

Ah well, at least it's generated some interest. I know what I'm going after and I'm going to try and find a way to make it happen. We'll see what others come up with.