The MP3car.com Store  

Welcome to the MP3Car.com forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. Registering will also remove advertisements. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   MP3Car.com > Mp3Car Technical > Input Devices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2007, 05:41 PM   #1
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Viable Non-Resistive 8.4" Touchscreen Kit Solutions?

While the resistive touchscreens are most prevalent, the optical alignment hassles for mating with a transflective panel appear to limit the modularity of the solution. This bothers me. In previous LCD/Display posts, Turbocad6 and others have stated that capacitive touch screens are free of this burden. It appears that this is also true of SAW. I am also concerned about glare and reflections. My understanding is that capacitive touchscreen surfaces have to be very smooth and uniform. Apparently, there are AR coatings available for the glass-based touchscreens.

I am kitting my own display and I want a capacitive or SAW touchscreen for an 8.4” display. See the LCD/Display forum for discussion on possible NEC 8.4” transflective candidate panel. Based on my limited research, SAW looks most attractive, although it may have a reduced temperature range. MicroTouch and Elo TouchSystems appear to offer non-resistive solutions in 6.5” and 8.4” sizes, based upon documentation.

I want to run a Linux OS so the driver may become an issue. Worst case I can use MS Windows. I also prefer a 50C-60C operation for immediate summertime operation while the A/C cools the interior. I ran some deep Google searches and found the following information:

8.4” SAW Touchscreen Options
http://www.winmate.com.tw/Lcd/Intell...uchscreens.htm
http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/datas...litouch_ds.pdf (datasheet for above link)
http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/manuals/intelli.pdf (detailed install manual)
http://www.amsimpex.com/products/SAW...screen%20.html (in India)
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroo...ch-Screen.html (GoldApple Mfr, in China)

8.4” Capacitive Touchscreens
http://www.ezscreen.com/capacitive_touch_screens.html (also 6.5”)
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksea...name=3M5520-ND (8.75”)
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T073/P2273.pdf(touchscreen and controller for 8.75” and 6.71”)
http://www.amsimpex.com/products/cap...uchscreen.html (in India)

My brief research leads me to pick IntelliTouch for SAW and MicroTouch ClearTekII for capacitive. Pricing is unknown for the SAW option, but looks like Winmate distributes it? The other SAW links appear to be international, which could raise the lead time and shipping price. Based on the Digikey pricing, which is generally higher than average, the 8.4” capacitive solution with controller can be done for under $200. Perhaps Ezscreen is cheaper for capacitive?

Who is using SAW? Who is using Capacitive? Which would you recommend based on your experience? I will try to get pricing information for both solutions from the links above.

Last edited by thermoptic : 09-13-2007 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Title Change
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-10-2007, 01:06 AM   #2
Laptop, Tablets, UMPC Moderator
turbocad6's CarPC Specs
 
turbocad6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NY
Vehicle: 2002 pontiac montana
Posts: 5,946
My Photos: (71)
capacitive has glare issues, as does saw. I think glare issues can be delt with more with saw than capacitive, saw seems to be more promising I think, but I don't have any experience with any good saw antireflective touchpanels...

bonding the lcd to the touchpanel is the best way to really cut down on glare, as it eliminates 2 of the 3 glare surfaces, but is not a diy solution.
__________________
MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen - "If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving....................."

first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D
turbocad6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2007, 01:12 AM   #3
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
I dug deeper and recorded 6.4", 8.4", and 10.4" information.

SAW

Deeper searching with ELO IntelliTouch part number PCNs, product manual cross-referencing, and eBay searches has clarified my understanding of the current offerings. It appears the 8.4” SAW IntelliTouch has been EOL based on the latest company site search. I still see it for sale at a few places, so I have a little hope, but not much.

IntelliTouch SAW Screens

ELO IntelliTouch 6.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E044941 a.k.a. SCN-IT-FLT06.4 a.k.a 433451-000 )
Sellers:
http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/582837/ for $58.08
6.4” Drawing:
http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600055_a.pdf

ELO IntelliTouch 8.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E676255 a.k.a. SCN-IT-FLT08.4 a.k.a 518375-000 )
Sellers:
http://www.aplus-sa.com/fr/showprod....7&div=2&fbr=30 (French Site unknown cost)
http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.c...stems/E676255/ for $92.16
http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?4...ystems_E676255 for $93.83
8.4” Drawing:
http://ecommas.tycoelectronics.com/c...MS600122_A.pdf

ELO IntelliTouch 10.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E753610 a.k.a SCN-IT-FLT10.4 a.k.a 464629-000 a.k.a 269259-000)
Seller: http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/561374/ for $70.70
10.4” Drawing:
http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600131_a.pdf


IntelliTouch Controller

2500U SAW USB Controller (P/N 714259-000) Discontinued Nov 2003
2701RSU Dual Serial/USB Controller (P/N D68054-000) Replacement
Specs:
http://www.elotouch.com/Products/Tou...h/c2701rsu.asp
Drawing:
http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600473_b.pdf
Seller:
http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductD...ci_sku=7782279 for $80.29
Drivers for MS Windows and Linux (Binaries and Source)
http://www.elotouch.com/Support/Downloads/dnld.asp

Controller USB Cable
ELO CAB-XT-20PIN-USB-08 (P/N D38640-000)
Seller:
http://search.ncix.com/displayproduc...20TOUCHSYSTEMS for $14.90

With many unknowns I will hazard at budget guess at $190-$200. Note the long backorders for panel. I could roll my own USB cable.

8.4” SAW Total: Estimated $200



Capacitive

Ezscreen capacitive touchscreens are comparable to ClearTek and they work with 3M Microtouch controller. The 3M EX II controllers have the better operating temperature of –40C to 70+C and smaller form factor. I am leaning toward the 3M solution from DigiKey, which was used for all the pricing in this section.

MicroTouch ClearTek II Capacitive Touchscreens

MicroTouch ClearTek II 6.71"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8091-203) $98.60
MicroTouch ClearTek II 8.75"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8921-203) $102.00
MicroTouch ClearTek II 10.83"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8921-203) $103.70
Specs For All:
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...66SeEzCOrrrrQ-

MicroTouch ClearTek II Controller

3M EX II Capacitive Controller - USB (3M EXII-7710UC) $78.20
Photo: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/3M/W...XII-7710UC.jpg
Guide:
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...66SBhaCOrrrrQ-
OS Drivers for MS Windows and Linux (binary and source RPMs):
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3.../TouchDrivers/


USB Interface Cable

USB Cable: EX II Controller to PC 8’ Black USB Cable (3M P/N 7314420) $14.00

8.4” Capacitive Total: $194.20


Does anyone have experience with the ELO IntelliTouch or the MicroTouch ClearTek II? I would like to make a decision by the end of this month as I need to nail this down and move forward to the software. Car PC fever can really take its toll, especially on sleep ....
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2007, 02:11 AM   #4
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Turbocad6, do you know of any shops that do bonding on the single quantity level? I recall one of the members here shipping his gear to Hong Kong for bonding. One of the LCD/Display threads discussed the $275K worth of equipment to do the bonding, so looks like the ole' rolling pin and can of spray adhesive won't cut it.

Looks like this company can do it, but maybe not for a small fry guy with only one setup:

http://www.gdoptilabs.com/documentat...nding_lcds.htm
http://www.gdoptilabs.com/products/optical_bonding.htm

Their sister General Digital site sells un-bonded, capacitive touch screens for $375 (only with an LCD purchase):

http://www.generaldigital.com/produc...ccessories.htm

Yikes. Maybe only military budgets are welcome there? I'll contact them this week to see what they say. Maybe if I buy everything from them, then I stand a chance? I have a bad feeling...
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 11:43 AM   #5
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
This company may do single quantity work:
http://www.i-techcompany.com/sunligh...-displays.html

Details On Optical Bonding
http://www.i-techcompany.com/sunligh...-displays.html
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 04:32 AM   #6
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
spmclaugh mentioned IR touchscreens from Digikey in the Display/LCD forum. I checked Digikey and saw the IRTOUCH touchscreens for 8.4" panels. IRTOUCH offers a K series with NO GLASS! This would eliminate all reflectivity issues! spmclaugh, thanks for expanding the possibilities!

I am new to touchscreen technology and I have been conditioned to wearing the resistive/SAW/capacitive blinders...

IRTOUCH
http://www.irtouchusa.com/

IRTOUCH K Series
http://irtouchusa.com/Upload/K.pdf

Digikey (sold in lots of 20 at $139.86, currently sold out!)
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/indexc13812.html

I have got to get to bed, but man, if this is viable.... no optical bonding... and the NEC panel already has AR coating....oh, man, sweet!
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 05:27 PM   #7
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Is there a way to edit the thread title to the following:

Viable Non-Resistive 8.4" Touchscreen Kit Solutions?

I suppose this is a moderator/admin operation?
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 06:54 PM   #8
Laptop, Tablets, UMPC Moderator
turbocad6's CarPC Specs
 
turbocad6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NY
Vehicle: 2002 pontiac montana
Posts: 5,946
My Photos: (71)
I could change the tittle in the lcd forum, but not in input devices, you should be able to change the tittle yourself though as author of the thread, check in thread tools at the top
__________________
MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen - "If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving....................."

first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D
turbocad6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 07:01 PM   #9
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Found it, thanks.
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 03:08 AM   #10
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
The IRTOUCH corporate site views better under IE, or IE Tab in Firefox. Their FAQ answered my basic questions, the biggest being how well the IR receivers operate in direct sunlight. This is a biggie. The marketing info says all is well, but I never trust marketing. I would like to see a few technical reviews on IRTOUCH before I pull the trigger.

While cost is listed as a con for an IR touchscreen, I think this is only for larger touchscreen sizes due to the materials cost (metal framing, PCB, IR array, etc). For the 10.4" sizes and below, the IR solution is cheaper. Consider that the IR controller is integrated into the IR array frame with a standard USB cable attached (may require an extender). This unit, say for the 8.4" E series (with glass ), retails in single quantity on Digikey at ~$130. I estimated the SAW or Cap 8.4" solution to be ~$200.

Clear cons would be the sensitivity (4096x4096 is interpolated) and the fact the the system adds more depth, which can affect the aesthetics of the bezel. Also the IR touchscreen frame is bigger! I believe by 1.6" on each side of the screen area for 8.4", so more elaborate dash restructuring may be necessary. I will check this in detail tomorrow after I have slept. Hopefully its not a deal-killer. I think IR would be worth more serious dash work. I would probably sub it out to someone.

I think I need the K08D05MU-01. I still need to decode how the glass/no glass option is specified...as a suffix? Can we just remove the glass? I hate glass. "Do not WANT"

I was also concerned about OS driver support, but they appear to have good coverage:
Drivers

8.4" Drawing Specs for Module E08 (E-Series targets the smaller displays and has glass, but I think we want the K-series in custom 8.4" size):
http://www.irtouchusa.com/Upload/E08.pdf

I found a video of the IRTOUCH on display at SID 2007 on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/irmultitouch
We should request more videos from the IRTOUCH member! In sunlight! Does your tech truly 0wn? If it does, we can print some "All your touch all belong to IRTOUCH" T-shirts!

Also, on a SID-based search tangent, I found the following:

Directory of the Display Industry (Jackpot!)

The above link is a treasure trove of manufacturer/distributor links that we may be able to leverage in the future.

IRTOUCH is based in Beijing. If English-based Google digs yield Zarro Hits, then I may need to hit the Chinese sites with Babelfish. Are there any Chinese individuals following this thread? I may need your language skills in the future.

Time to run the deep searches. GoogleBot, don't fail me now...
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-15-2007, 01:42 PM   #11
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
MagicTouch offers DIY IR touchscreen kits using their modular OPTIR technology. This allows you to integrate the IR array in your existing bezel with a spacer to offset from the LCD screen.

Optir Touch Overview
http://www.magictouch.com/IR_screen.html

Example 65" Kit
http://www.magictouch.com/setup-082707-65.pdf

Demo Video
http://www.magictouch.com/ASF_0164.ASF

The downside is that it is EXPENSIVE! I ran their Excel sheet and the total cost with controller was $782!

Oh well, it was worth a try...
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:31 PM   #12
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Ezscreen sells an 8.4" IR screen, which may be an IRTOUCH (specs are very similar).

Overview
http://www.ezscreen.com/wavelength-i...ch-screen.html

FAQ
http://www.ezscreen.com/wavelength-faq.htm

Store - No 8.4" Listed
http://www.ezscreen.com/onlineshop/e...arget=d19.html

Drivers - No WaveLength Linux Drivers
http://www.ezscreen.com/download_current.html

They offer different glass types, so I think I can get no glass. I'll submit an inquiry. One of the nice features with this IR touchscreen technology is -41ēC to +70ē C operation!
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 07:14 PM   #13
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Found IRTOUCH Users Manual, pretty dull, but page 17 to end cover properties and calibration menus. Looks mature.

User Manual
http://www.irtouchusa.com/Upload/UserManual.pdf
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2007, 06:17 PM   #14
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
On the optical bonding front, I came across G-Bond:

2005 Brochure: G-Bond Technology
http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/ima...chure_2005.pdf

Pricing: G-Bond with AR Coating ($300 single quantity)
http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/gbond.html

Demo Video with Floodlight
http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/ima...ewdisplays.wmv
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2007, 11:40 PM   #15
Constant Bitrate
thermoptic's CarPC Specs
 
thermoptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1998 Honda Accord
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
From the marketing info, I think i-techcompany (linked previously) is using G-Bond.

It turns out that the soda lime glass used in the bonding blocks UV light. Nice! The GDS Clearview bonding is reworkable, so they can test afterwards and correct if needed. I will request details on the surface reflectivity of the AR coating. The SID2007 info stated they achieve an overall reflectivity of 2%. This has to be without AR coating??

One possible solution is to use the IRTOUCH with no glass on this G-Bonded AR coated soda lime glass. That would be a total of $430 for touchscreen, but I bet the ECR would be sick! Awaiting reflectivity number to run the ECR equation.

I think I will "stick" with the 3M AR-MP200....
thermoptic is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
touchscreen kit at digitalww question tominated LCD/Display 2 10-14-2006 06:28 PM
touchscreen kit mutilator Input Devices 12 05-14-2003 12:22 PM
8.4" VGA LCD TFT Touch Screen Kit Zip-Lock Classified Archive 5 12-27-2002 08:38 AM
8.4" Vga Lcd Screens With Touchscreen BGreet Classified Archive 95 09-25-2002 03:12 AM
8.4" Touchscreen LCD, 7" Wide LCD & portable DVD player with TV Tuner nolmscheid Classified Archive 4 03-16-2002 01:32 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.


Sponsored Links
The MP3car.com Store

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright © 1999 - 2008 Mp3Car.com Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Message Board Statistics