laptop or new hardware

elimenohpee · 04-24-2007, 07:47 PM

I'm in the final stages of my pc planning. I am going to start purchasing here in a couple weeks, but I've reached a fork in the road. I originally planned to go the mini-itx route for space and power reasons, but I've come across an old laptop with a broken screen. The laptop is my brother's (so i can get it for free

) is only a couple of years old. This is a link for the laptop. Now it is a 2.8ghz pentium 4, so I'm already worried about how much current this thing draws. I need to do some more searching on that, but I thought since it is a laptop, it has to be at least somewhat power efficient. But on the good side, it has a wireless card already built in which is a plus, and a new 100 gig harddrive.

So if you had the choice between paying another ~$250 or so for memory, mb, processor, and hd, would you go with the laptop or not? part of me wants to start something from scratch, but part of me wants to go this route because of money

.

shotgunefx · 04-24-2007, 07:59 PM

You figuring in a power supply in that figure$$$?

I went the laptop route myself both times around as the first one I had, and the second better one, I got virtually free.

I'm happy with it. An Ampie or something would look more polished, but I get more oomf and I can take it out of the dock when I'm on the road.

I ended up spending a bit more as I got 2 docks/2 monitor stands, etc so I can just bring it in the house to work on the software, but even with the auto-air adapter, that was probably ~ $110

A good question would be, how hard will it be to have it automatically startup? Mine was easy by modifying the dock (and leaving the laptop usable on it's own), shutdown was easy utilizing ACPI and the built in battery.

elimenohpee · 04-24-2007, 08:12 PM

Well thats the problem I'm going to face with the laptop. I dont really know how I would power it. I don't want to use an inverter. I obviously need to research it a little more, but I really want some sort of shutdown controller on whatever power supply I use. I don't ever need to take it out of the car, so hacking it up completely wouldn't be a problem. I just dont know what to do!

shotgunefx · 04-24-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by elimenohpee

Well thats the problem I'm going to face with the laptop. I dont really know how I would power it. I don't want to use an inverter. I obviously need to research it a little more, but I really want some sort of shutdown controller on whatever power supply I use. I don't ever need to take it out of the car, so hacking it up completely wouldn't be a problem. I just dont know what to do!

Well, you could use a P1900, not an option I could use as due to Dell's proprietary power supply, it wouldn't charge the battery and to me that's a deal breaker.

Auto-air adapters are pretty cheap. Shutdown is easy and can be done with power management. I have my auto-air adapter powered by a circuit that's only on with the key. In the ACPI setup, it's set to shut down X minutes when it's on battery, so when I turn off the car, the laptop runs on battery for a couple of minutes and shuts off. As far as starting it, there are various options depending on your laptop.

What I did won't work for you, I jumped the button on the dock, not the laptop, the laptop won't "see" the button press on the dock until the external power (the auto-air) is applied. If I did it on the laptop itself, it would just stay running til the laptop battery died.

You still need to power the screen, so you might want to look at the P1900, I believe it has a pulse output to connect to the power button.

lbridges · 04-24-2007, 08:49 PM

Like shotgunefx, I am using an auto/air DC-DC power supply on a laptop. FYI, it's a Dell laptop. My laptop had an internal modem, and using an idea from a fellow forum member (my apology - I don't remember who to credit), I wired the laptop's power button to the modem plug. Then I ran a regular phone line to a momentary switch on my dash. That way I can power up/down from the switch. Also, with the proper BIOS/Windows settings I go into/out of hibernation with just a quick push of the button, and if I forget, the laptop hibernates after 3 minutes via the power settings in Windows. I didn't go the dock route as my car doesn't have room for one (no trunk, no back seat, etc.), but the dock wiring would certainly be easier to hack than soldering direct to the laptop MB.

shotgunefx · 04-24-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by lbridges

Like shotgunefx, I am using an auto/air DC-DC power supply on a laptop. FYI, it's a Dell laptop. My laptop had an internal modem, and using an idea from a fellow forum member (my apology - I don't remember who to credit), I wired the laptop's power button to the modem plug. Then I ran a regular phone line to a momentary switch on my dash. That way I can power up/down from the switch. Also, with the proper BIOS/Windows settings I go into/out of hibernation with just a quick push of the button, and if I forget, the laptop hibernates after 3 minutes via the power settings in Windows. I didn't go the dock route as my car doesn't have room for one (no trunk, no back seat, etc.), but the dock wiring would certainly be easier to hack than soldering direct to the laptop MB.

I originally wanted to use Wake On Ring, but my first laptop didn't have the modem, so I bought it and it didn't have the pads on the motherboard.

Second one didn't support it in the BIOS.

elimenohpee · 04-24-2007, 09:22 PM

Wow, a lot of great information here. Thats a neat little idea about wiring the power button to the modem outlet. I guess like shotgun said, powering off wouldn't seem to be an issue if when the car is turned off, it would power off x-minutes on its own battery. But I really don't see the point of buying a dock if I'm never going to take it out of the car, ya know?

OnTalyn · 04-25-2007, 10:04 AM

Quick question for those with the Dell dock and auto/air adapter. If the dock uses the dell 90watt AC cord, would the 90 watt auto/air just replace it or should I go with the 130 watt. Dell offers both versions but only lists laptop model compatibility not docking port.

thanks

shotgunefx · 04-25-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by elimenohpee

Wow, a lot of great information here. Thats a neat little idea about wiring the power button to the modem outlet. I guess like shotgun said, powering off wouldn't seem to be an issue if when the car is turned off, it would power off x-minutes on its own battery. But I really don't see the point of buying a dock if I'm never going to take it out of the car, ya know?

I hear you. The only possible reason I could see for the dock in your case would be to give you a second chance if you screw up soldering.

Quote: Originally Posted by OnTalyn

Quick question for those with the Dell dock and auto/air adapter. If the dock uses the dell 90watt AC cord, would the 90 watt auto/air just replace it or should I go with the 130 watt. Dell offers both versions but only lists laptop model compatibility not docking port.

thanks

The one I got was 90w, so far, it's been powering the laptop/dock without issue. Made by battery-biz (P/N#AA-5001), the seller on ebay (dsmiller_inc) doesn't seem to have the same brand anymore, but has several others (some of them 130W) though the prices are higher. So if it has whatever dell expects to see to identify the adapter as 90w or higher and provides 90w or higher than you should be ok. If in doubt, ask the seller. I did, (and the mfg just to confirm

), the way I phrased it was

Quote:

I want to run a dell dock and the laptop off of this. Dell requires a +90watt (equivalant to a PA-10 or PA-13) adapter for this (or the BIOS refuses to boot), they (mfg) said it was 90watts, again want to confirm that this will work for my application.

I think using the appropriate Dell power supply number is most likely to get you the correct answer.

MatrixPC · 04-25-2007, 12:18 PM

If I was to build one from scratch (without any part on shelf collecting dust), I will go with laptop + dock setup.

shotgunefx · 04-25-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

If I was to build one from scratch (without any part on shelf collecting dust), I will go with laptop + dock setup.

There are definitely some pros. The only downside is it takes more trunkspace than I'd like.

Shai-Hulud · 04-25-2007, 08:33 PM

Here's my two bits: First let me say I have not built a carputer but I am in the final stages as well. I also was torn between mini-ITX and a laptop. I have several laptops laying around and then a friend of mine dropped a hp zd7000 in my lap. Same as yours, the screen was busted but it was a mobo issue. It works perfectly otherwise with external video. This is the route I'm going. I worked out my power issue: How to power it. I'm going with a Carnetix 1900 PSU w/ built in startup/shutdown controller. How is it going to startup and shutdown the laptop, you ask? Simple. The power button. On the power button is 4 contacts. 2 of those short the circuit and cause the laptop to power on/off. I'm going to solder a wire to each of those two contacts then lead those two wires over to the Carnetix or have it run to the front dash to a button. I haven't decided yet. I'll prolly do a little trial and error to find out.

Why a laptop and not a mini-itx? Well, cost. The laptop is free and has a hell of a lot more processing power. Do I need it in a car? Prolly not. But, I'd rather have more power than not enough. I might want to encode some video on a road trip, watch a DVD and play a game on a long road trip.

Besides, I want to keep the cost down as much as possible. On the other hand if cost isn't that big of a deal to you then you could put what you'd invest in a mini-itx system into other extras and goodies instead.

The other guys are suggesting an air/auto dc-dc adapter. It's cheap and easy. The downside is you're limited when it comes to powering other items like a USB hub if later down the line you want a little more flexibility. I'm planning with a little extra capability in mind, just in case. That way when it's all said and done I won't have to worry about re-working parts of the system (i.e. re-wiring, adding more hardware). Honestly, I don't want to have to go back into the system (removing paneling, moving wires around the car, etc) unless the damned system isn't working.

One last thing about the air/auto dc-dc adapter....you won't be able to power your screen. I know, the screens come with a regulator but I've been reading around here that those regulators aren't the best which could lead to premature failure. That brings me back to another reason why I'm set on a Carnetix 1900 PSU. I'll have one unit supplying power to the carputer as a whole....less hardware to troubleshoot if there is a grounding problem i.e. a hum or buzz in your audio system. A little extra forethought and cost in the power supply area and maybe a little less hassle in the long run.

Then again, I haven't even bought the components to my system yet so maybe I'm talking out my ***.

thebranded · 04-26-2007, 12:23 AM

I too just decided to go the lappy way instead of the min itx box. simply cause i have a old lappy (dell p2 500) if that seems to weak i have nother P3 1ghz) which should do fine. techincally both work fine just slow for lappy use.

as mine were both Dell Lattitudes i found a single dock that supports both lappies

hooked up a 12v to 20v dc to dc convertor and that powers it beautifully, the PSu provides twices as much power as need so , am running another convorter to do 20v to 12v for screen, and 20v to 5v for USB hub. all up a lot cheaper and clean install than the mini itx, with the benefit of being able to take the lappy out if needed.

btw project finally gets started this weekend, just got all the parts.

shotgunefx · 04-26-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Shai-Hulud

...
One last thing about the air/auto dc-dc adapter....you won't be able to power your screen. I know, the screens come with a regulator but I've been reading around here that those regulators aren't the best which could lead to premature failure. That brings me back to another reason why I'm set on a Carnetix 1900 PSU. I'll have one unit supplying power to the carputer as a whole....less hardware to troubleshoot if there is a grounding problem i.e. a hum or buzz in your audio system. A little extra forethought and cost in the power supply area and maybe a little less hassle in the long run.

Then again, I haven't even bought the components to my system yet so maybe I'm talking out my ***.

A good point and the lilliput "egg" type voltage regulator is horrendous. Unbelievable how much noise it injected into my setup which is why I pretty much instantly replaced it.

Making a small 12v regulator is actually very cheap and pretty easy if you go the Auto-Air route. I'm actually using two (mainly as I didnt' want to run more wires in the floor), one for up front and the lcd and two camera, and one in the back for a camera and a quad video processor

Having said that, if a P1900 was an option I could have used, I would have as it's just cleaner looking and easier to install.

Oh yeah, have to worry about amp-thump too. IIRC P1900 handles that, I OTOH used an old Basic Stamp board I had around, a darlington array and a relay to delay startup. It works and it's all stuff I had on hand, but again, not the prettiest thing. If I left box out on the street, there'd be another scare in Boston.

elimenohpee · 04-26-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

A good point and the lilliput "egg" type voltage regulator is horrendous. Unbelievable how much noise it injected into my setup which is why I pretty much instantly replaced it.

Making a small 12v regulator is actually very cheap and pretty easy if you go the Auto-Air route. I'm actually using two (mainly as I didnt' want to run more wires in the floor), one for up front and the lcd and two camera, and one in the back for a camera and a quad video processor

Having said that, if a P1900 was an option I could have used, I would have as it's just cleaner looking and easier to install.

Oh yeah, have to worry about amp-thump too. IIRC P1900 handles that, I OTOH used an old Basic Stamp board I had around, a darlington array and a relay to delay startup. It works and it's all stuff I had on hand, but again, not the prettiest thing. If I left box out on the street, there'd be another scare in Boston.

good stuff.

i'm really thinking that the best thing is to just go with this laptop. I can do some more research and figure out the best way to wire the startup/shutdown controller. I'm sure there's an easy solution somewhere in these threads

. And I really wanted to go with computer as an all in solution so I wouldn't have to buy another after market hu for my sound processing, but I dont see why a sound card via usb wouldn't work. Plus if I go the carnetix 1900 route, I can still power my screen + have a startup/shutdown controller (which was another main reason for going the mini-itx route).

Quote: Originally Posted by Shai-Hulud

Here's my two bits: First let me say I have not built a carputer but I am in the final stages as well. I also was torn between mini-ITX and a laptop. I have several laptops laying around and then a friend of mine dropped a hp zd7000 in my lap. Same as yours, the screen was busted but it was a mobo issue. It works perfectly otherwise with external video. This is the route I'm going. I worked out my power issue: How to power it. I'm going with a Carnetix 1900 PSU w/ built in startup/shutdown controller. How is it going to startup and shutdown the laptop, you ask? Simple. The power button. On the power button is 4 contacts. 2 of those short the circuit and cause the laptop to power on/off. I'm going to solder a wire to each of those two contacts then lead those two wires over to the Carnetix or have it run to the front dash to a button. I haven't decided yet. I'll prolly do a little trial and error to find out.

Why a laptop and not a mini-itx? Well, cost. The laptop is free and has a hell of a lot more processing power. Do I need it in a car? Prolly not. But, I'd rather have more power than not enough. I might want to encode some video on a road trip, watch a DVD and play a game on a long road trip.

Besides, I want to keep the cost down as much as possible. On the other hand if cost isn't that big of a deal to you then you could put what you'd invest in a mini-itx system into other extras and goodies instead.

The other guys are suggesting an air/auto dc-dc adapter. It's cheap and easy. The downside is you're limited when it comes to powering other items like a USB hub if later down the line you want a little more flexibility. I'm planning with a little extra capability in mind, just in case. That way when it's all said and done I won't have to worry about re-working parts of the system (i.e. re-wiring, adding more hardware). Honestly, I don't want to have to go back into the system (removing paneling, moving wires around the car, etc) unless the damned system isn't working.

One last thing about the air/auto dc-dc adapter....you won't be able to power your screen. I know, the screens come with a regulator but I've been reading around here that those regulators aren't the best which could lead to premature failure. That brings me back to another reason why I'm set on a Carnetix 1900 PSU. I'll have one unit supplying power to the carputer as a whole....less hardware to troubleshoot if there is a grounding problem i.e. a hum or buzz in your audio system. A little extra forethought and cost in the power supply area and maybe a little less hassle in the long run.

Then again, I haven't even bought the components to my system yet so maybe I'm talking out my ***.

Thank you for just convincing me to go the laptop route

.