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09-03-2007, 04:44 PM
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#136
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 210
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Ah you have the ESR installed. I suspect that is one of the major contributors in your case. I look forward the pics and your details on what was wrong the posted install method.
-Kevin
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09-03-2007, 04:45 PM
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#137
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 112
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Quote: Originally Posted by Homebrew 
Ok guys, just got done with my Xenarc 700TSV. Actually, just got done putting it back together for a second time. Unfortunatly I won't be able to test it in car for a while as I've decided to make repairs to my bezel while it's out. However, I have tested it in the house using sunbeams coming through the windows and I don't seem to be getting the results changeip got. However, I do see (and read) that the orientation of the film affects viewing angles. So that may be part of whats going on. Once I get it back in the car, we'll have some more solid results. I used 2 sheets of BEF-II in alternating directions(per the instructions), topped off with DBEF-E 0 degree. From my preliminary testing, it doesn't seem to be doing much for sunlight viewing. Maybe the 45 degree DBEF-E was more appropriate after all. My results thus far should not be taken as any kind of definitive proof that the film works or doesn't work. This is the just my results with this particular combo. I'm sure I have the films oriented correctly, because I disassembled the screen and double checked. With that said, lets get into the process I used for this.
First let me say, this isn't for the faint of heart. Having the screen out of its case and separated from the touchscreen board is one thing. Disassembling the LCD is far more involved. Not trying to scare anyone out of it, but just be aware of what you're getting yourself into. With that said, I'm not responsible if you mess up your screen. This process worked for me(so far anyway), but may not necessarily work for you. My screen is a second gen(?) Xenarc with the 4-wire touchscreen. Therefore newer Xenarcs may be different.
I'm starting off from the LCD already being removed and separated from the touchscreen board.
Here you can see the various tabs that need to be pryed back in order to remove the LCD from the metal casing. You also need to pull the connector off that is stuck to the side of the metal casing.
Here are some more tabs that need to be pried back. Be very careful not to damage the ribbon cables. I suggest you use your fingernails rather than a screwdriver.
Once all the tabs have been pried back and you pull the connector off, you can now pull the screen from the metal casing and you should be left with just the LCD and backlight assembly. Next you need to remove the LCD ribbon cable so that you can rotate the LCD out of the way. Here's a close up of the ribbon cable, but it's also pictured in the first pic of this post.
Here's a picture of the LCD face up after being removed from the metal casing. and the ribbon disconnected:
You next rotate the LCD up and out of the way, being very careful, not to damage these ribbon cables:
Her you can see the bottom of the LCD. I used my fingernails to gently pry it up and the edge(it is stuck with double sided tape, though the tape on mine was pretty weak).
Here you see the LCD rotated out of the way:
I cut my pieces of film that were 158mm by 97mm. You could cut them slightly larger and probably slightly smaller though. To cut them I used a piece of MDF as my cutting board along with a square and a VERY sharp X-acto knife.
As you can see I used a felt pen to mark what looks like V's on the film. This was so I knew where the notch in the film was. The notch is used for getting the correct orientation of the film. This is unfortunately where the pics end.
*Note: Others may want to try the steamy bathroom suggestion for a sudo clean room. I did this at my desk and as soon as I pulled off the protective sheets, dust clung to the films. I cleaned them with a slightly damp, eyeglass microfiber rag as best I could and just assembled it anyway. Didn't seem to show any dirt when I fired it up. Your mileage may very though. Definetly don't want any big debris getting there. I also recommend rubber gloves to avoid getting fingerprints on anything.
From here I laid down a piece of the BEF-II on the back light with the now imaginary notch in the upper right corner.
Next another piece of BEF-II, cut so that it's rotated 90 degrees from the first piece when mounted. It's the equivalent of rotating the sheet so the notch faces out the side of the top left corner of the screen.
Next the DBEF-E 0 degree was placed on top of the second piece of BEF-II with the imaginary notch in the upper right corner.
After that, the LCD can be rotated back into place and the disassembly procedure is reversed.
Things I may try differently to improve performance:
1. May remove the second piece of BEF-II and see what happens. Maybe I didn't cut the second piece right and it's oriented the same as first sheet effectively canceling the first sheet out.
2. Try to get some DBEF-E 45 degree. Maybe 45 degree was somehow more appropriate for this application.
3. Try the ESR film .
4. Try the ARMR-200 anti-glare film.
In step 7, thats not the diffuser and backlight. Don't get me wrong, they are in there, just a few layers down. What you are pointing to are the 2 layers of film that xenarc has installed. Unless if my screen is different. Below those 2 layers are the diffuser sheet and backlight. I had to pry the metal casing in step 7 open (by popping open the little clips surrounding the screen) to access the films. Once in there you can replace the top 2 films with BEF and DBEF. If you have ESR, that goes at the very bottom, behind the diffusing glass. I am sorry if you did what I just explained, but I may have misunderstood. Again, what you are pointing to in step 7 is probably a couple sheets of BEF or DBEF used by Xenarc.
Thanks for the step by step instructions, the pictures are really good!!
Last edited by PhatMo; 09-03-2007 at 04:54 PM.
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09-03-2007, 05:11 PM
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#138
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 210
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No problem, glad you replied. I was worried that I didn't go far enough. Being a novice to the inner working of an LCD, I was unsure where to stop. Depending on what the properties are of the sheets that Xenarc already has applied, you may not be hurting anything placing the BEF and DBEF on top of what I mistakingly pointed out as the diffuser. However, that could be another reason i'm not getting the results I hoped for. The ESR however, definitely needs to go before the films pre-installed by xenarc as you mentioned. I'm holding off taking it back a part until I've had a chance to get it back in the car and take a look. After that I'll pull it apart again and fix my DBEF-II and update my instructions and pics. Thanks for correcting me.
Edit: I made a temporary note in my instructions discussing this.
-Kevin
Last edited by Homebrew; 09-03-2007 at 05:20 PM.
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09-04-2007, 04:35 AM
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#139
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Fusion Brain Creator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado, but Canadian!
Posts: 7,442
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Ok, just incase someone is wondering, I havent re-opened my screen. Reason being I am too busy!
I can say though with almost 100% certainty, I installed it wrong. Whether it be the wrong cut, or the being upsidedown, it cannot be in there correctly. It does look better with more indirect light, however with direct light, it because a giant mirror of death (which it did not used to be before). This tells me it is in upside down, but I am no expert.
So to sum up, if you install it upside down, you actually decrease your sunlight readability.
As soon as I reopen it and test, Ill let you know. I dont expect that time to come for another week or two... or three, or so.
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09-04-2007, 08:58 AM
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#140
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Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
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What about this monitor? Have they just inserted some of these funky films in there to increase the brightness to 600 NITS ? or is the 600NITS calculated before the films were applied?
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10949
Because while reading through this article I kept thinking about enhancing the 600 NIT screen. And making it the brightest screen ever!
I've just ordered the samples from the 3M site, we'll see if they get to me here in Melbourne. I'm not sure if I want to upgrade a cheap display or get a trusted one like xenarc & liliput. But I would definitely prefer to have a flip out in-dash display.
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09-04-2007, 11:50 AM
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#141
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 210
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Quote: Originally Posted by spacefrog 
What about this monitor? Have they just inserted some of these funky films in there to increase the brightness to 600 NITS ? or is the 600NITS calculated before the films were applied?
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10949
Because while reading through this article I kept thinking about enhancing the 600 NIT screen. And making it the brightest screen ever!
I've just ordered the samples from the 3M site, we'll see if they get to me here in Melbourne. I'm not sure if I want to upgrade a cheap display or get a trusted one like xenarc & liliput. But I would definitely prefer to have a flip out in-dash display.
I wish I had an answer for you, but I have the same question. I'm curious to whether or not that's how the new Xenarc got the it's new rating. It does appear to have a different LCD than older models, so maybe it is just a higher brightness LCD, but still it makes you wonder.
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09-04-2007, 12:12 PM
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#142
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Jesus Freak
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,277
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Dying to see some more action shots
__________________
-Jesus- King of Kings Lord of Lords
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09-04-2007, 01:19 PM
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#143
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Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 20
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So, should we order this combination?
Vikuiti ARMR200
Vikuiti BEF II 90/50
Vikuiti BEF III 90/50 5T
Vikuiti DBEF E
or
Vikuiti ARMR200
Vikuiti BEF II 90/50
Vikuiti DBEF E
Vikuiti ESR?
What should we order?
__________________
Ford F-250 Crew Cab Super Duty. Looking to install a full audio/video system integrated with a mobile computer.
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09-04-2007, 02:58 PM
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#144
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 210
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I don't know if mixing BEF-II and BEF-III is good or bad or doesn't matter. However, I would definetly pick up ESR, DBEF-E, and either BEF-II or BEF-III. The samples they're giving for ARMR-200 are appearantly too small for our screens.
-Kevin
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09-04-2007, 03:49 PM
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#145
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Low Bitrate
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 63
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I have just listed BEFII 90/50 films for anyone who want to bypass the samples process:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260160380168
These sheets are for a 17" monitor - 1 sheet should be plenty for 2 layers ... cut it up and layer it.
I will be posting a video walkthru shortly - possibly this evening or tomorrow morning. I finally am getting my truck back today !
This films wholesale price on the 3M pricing sheet they sent me was $38 per sheet. You have to buy 10 sheets at $380 minimum. I am posting this auction simply to help those who only want a single sheet and don't feel like bothering with the 3M samples process, either because it takes too long, or she gets fed up and doesn't send anymore because too many people start requesting them : )
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260160380168
If you wish to purchase DBEF-P2 on ebay, you can use this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brightness-Enhan...QQcmdZViewItem
I am not 100% sure that DBEF-P2 is a good option, as its supposed to be laminated to the back of the lcd panel ... although I don't see why it couldnt be used anyhow.
Last edited by changeip; 09-14-2007 at 03:45 PM.
Reason: adding URL - editing URL
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09-04-2007, 05:45 PM
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#146
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Fusion Brain Creator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado, but Canadian!
Posts: 7,442
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Ok, well in order to procrastinate on doing my mountians of homework, I have started to take my screen apart again. I thought it was mentioned in this thread but I cant find it...
If you look at the 90/50 and hold it close to something, if you can see through that side, then that is the side that faces towards the LCD, and the other side faces towards the backlight correct? If it reflects too much, then that is the side that faces the backlight... I think.
Also for the DBEF, there is a front and back for that too isn't there?
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09-04-2007, 06:32 PM
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#147
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Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 20
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Quote: Originally Posted by Homebrew 
I don't know if mixing BEF-II and BEF-III is good or bad or doesn't matter. However, I would definetly pick up ESR, DBEF-E, and either BEF-II or BEF-III. The samples they're giving for ARMR-200 are appearantly too small for our screens.
-Kevin
Thanks Kevin. I ordered.
__________________
Ford F-250 Crew Cab Super Duty. Looking to install a full audio/video system integrated with a mobile computer.
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09-04-2007, 07:22 PM
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#148
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Fusion Brain Creator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado, but Canadian!
Posts: 7,442
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Ok, well I put them in the right way, and the glare is definately gone. But horrible side news...
Cat decided he wanted to lay down where my Microelectronics textbook was and pushed over the pile onto my bare unprotected LCD...  So basically I have a 1/4" by 1/2" cracked area of LCD now in the top left corner of my screen. In the BMV2 skin for RR it is right where the Honda spinning logo is pretty much.
I am pretty ****ed off, and the cat is now in the basement after it heard a few choice words.
All I can say is this better work, because the "if it aint broke, dont fix it" thing just keeps replaying in my mind now.
Oh well, what's done is done. I will have to wait until next year to buy a new screen, so I am stuck with it. The sun is gone now, so again I cant test in sunlight right away. I have more pictures but they stop right after the LCD+textbook mess.
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09-05-2007, 04:49 PM
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#149
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Fusion Brain Creator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado, but Canadian!
Posts: 7,442
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Ok, thismorning I was ****ed off royally. I woke up and on the drive to school the screen was very very very dim. So again thisafternoon for the 3rd time, I opened it up, and added a second layer of BEFII at a 90degree angle. So now backlight-->diffuser-->BEFII Theta --> BEFII (Theta + pi/2) --> DBEF -->LCD
I must say that now it is installed it is awesome.
First off, the boo-boo on my LCD
The next 3 images are in Direct sunlight. I opened the sunroof, and rolled down the windows. Both of which are tinted at 20%. And direct sunlight glare shining on the screen. Again, DIRECT:
These next 3 images are me being parked half way in, and half way out of the garage, such that the light is hitting the garage, then reflecting into my car through the open sunroof. So still intense sun, but not direct:
The next image is of it in the garage with the door open so low light conditions such as a few hourse before sundown:
And today the sun is like this:
Sorry for the big images, but that is how my camera takes it and as it is, I will be late for work because of uploading this.
Enjoy, and overall I must say it was worth it even if I cracked my LCD in the process. It is not that noticeable anyways:
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09-05-2007, 05:27 PM
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#150
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MySQL Error
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Beach City, Socal
Posts: 4,033
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Oh man, that look good.
I take your words 2k1 "no regret event cracking the panel doing it".
Time to do mine. I'm not sure if the ESR film help but the installation doesn't look user friendly.
Also from the installation guide, 3M stated that if you use 2 BEF + DBEF you can eleminate the diffuser.
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