antimatter

now all we need is a touchscreen that didn't reflect so much glare

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swift_gti

Sucks about your LCD 2k1toaster
The results from the films look good though! So at least it wasn't all wasted!

I'd be interested to see some installation pics if you have any, and some details on the rotation of the films.. since thats exactly the same screen I've just bought.

Seeing MatrixPC's comments regarding removal of the diffuser if we install 2x BEF + 1x DBEF - I may try that out as presumably without the diffuser we'll get even more light to the LCD....?

2k1Toaster

I will get some pics uploaded.

As for more light without the diffuser, I doubt it.

The thing is the backlight creates X amount of light but in a very small area. The diffuser just takes the X light and spreads it over a bigger area to even it out. It is still the same amount of light. The only difference is that there wouldn't be as much reflected back, meaning if your back seal is broken the light will escape there. But that tinfoil-like film on the back basically takes all the diffuser light that is reflected back, and reflects it back towards the backlight until it passes through. So the diffuser will make no difference. It will just take longer for each photon to make its way through, but we cant see those changes in time, so it seems instant for us.

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spacefrog

I just got a reply back from 'Linda Thalhuber' after requesting some samples from 3M.

She wants to know the type of display, expected volume, films currently in the display, end use application, and the the panel type (transmissive/tranflective)

I'm guessing she has a good idea of what is going on...

Not sure if I should just flat out lie and get me some free samples. I'll probably just buy some from ebay.

Fallout

almost looks like my regular 700tsv in sunlight. check my sig. i mean ya in direct las vegas sunlight, it's hard to read, but so is that liliput. it's almost the same.

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Homebrew

How new is your Xenarc out of curiousity? Is it one of the newest ones? Since the newer ones seem to come with something comparable pre-installed, that could be why. That is if you in fact have one of the newer ones.

2K1Toaster: Maybe it's just because of the camera, I know getting pictures that accurately reflect what you see can be challenging with things like this, but I feel the pic that changeip originally posted was more comparable to your half in/half out of the garage shots. Your direct sunlight pic just doesn't appear to be a sunlight readable as changeip's original pic. Only you no for sure how well it looks in person, but to me it doesn't look much of an improvement over my stock Xenarc(Older Xenarc at that). I'm not trying to argue liliput/xenarc here, just that I had expected/hoped for a better result. The result changeip posted seems like a huge improvement. Maybe its because he was zoomed out a little more. Not trying to start anything, just making an observation.

Granted it's been a while, but when I saw a transflective screen in person, it seemed much better than the results I've seen so far with these films. With that said, I think in the end, we'll achieve a close enough result to not warrant the transflective premium. I think we just need to nail down the right combination. Also, people like me, who have screens that are lower mounted have an uphill battle. Since screens are typically mounted in the car's radio location, which is typically in the center of the dash, we have to look at the screen from a side viewing angle. On top of that, i'm also looking at a downward viewing angle as well. The 3m BEF films focus the light for a specific viewing angle. Your top-most sheet of BEF determines your best viewing angle by orientation. Since my screen is down and to the right, one of my viewing angles is going to be far better than other. If you hold the BEF to a light source and move it in the direction it's oriented for, you'll see a change when it exceeds the viewing angle. For instance if you have oriented for up/down, if you move it up or down enough, you'll see a change. No matter what I'm gonna get poor results on parts of the screen.

-Kevin

changeip

A premilimary, amateur, half-*** tutorial on how to take apart your screen : )

http://media.changeip.com:8080/sam/X...ansUpgrade.wmv

or

mms://media.changeip.com/sam/XenarcTransUpgrade.wmv

I planned on doing more voice overs and explaining things, and overlay text to point things out, but ran out of time... at least you can see whats going on.

Sam

Homebrew

Nice work Sam, I didn't get to watch the whole things since I'm at work, but it appears to be very thorough. The newer Xenarcs are definetly VERY different inside than the older ones like mine. LCD, touchscreen board, it all looks different. I definetly need to go a little farther when I open mine up again. I very curious if the use of the film is how they got the 500nit rating, or if the LCD itself is actually 500 nit. The vikuiti docs mention as much as a 120nit(I think thats right) improvement with 2 layers of BEF, so it makes you wonder. Did you play with the Xenarc in the sun at all before the upgrade? Just wondering if you'll be able to distinguish an improvement on the Xenarc.

-Kevin

changeip

I didnt have a chance to test this Xenarc in the sun before hand since my truck was in the shop. I did not make any changes on this one however, so I will mount it, test it, take pictures, and then toy around with removing their films and placing mine in to see the difference. If they are already including BEF (who knows which ones) then it might not be worth it on these newer ones. I am curious what the motorcity guys are doing to these, if anything other than installing ARM200 on them. Also, I dont believe there is DBEF on the top of the stock xenarcs - so that might be another option to increase it more. I am looking into luminex leds to make a backlight... if the panel has a decent contract ratio it might be a nice addition that could be sold to many people if we mfg it right.

2k1Toaster

yes the pictures dont do it justice. I have a point-and-shoot camera and basically the settings are all hidden deep in the menu and a PITA to start playing with. So I used all Auto settings. This means it tries to balance out the photo.

Also the first picture was taken at 9am and you can clearly see by the way the shadow is facing, that the sun is "infront" of the car so the sun is not directly over the screen. Therefore my "half in half out" pictures are comparable and I think mine looks better with the 2 films actually. In person I can read it in direct sunlight, and the skin I use is BMV2 so it is very dark to begin with. The skin in the first picture seems light.

Also, my windows and sunroof were completely down. The sun was shining right on top of it. I can try to take some better pics.

I have seen the original transflective that started this whole craze in person (from the who wants to spend $400 on a transflective upgrade thread), and this does compare. The transflective wins hands down, but this is definately up there. I have also seen a regular stock Xenarc installed, and this is far brighter.

In person it looks better. And the whole time I was driving around, I could see the screen. Very rarely do I have all my windows down, and even if I did, I would still be able to read it without using my hand to cast a shadow.

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Homebrew

Good info, I use BMV2 as well, so I can understand what you're saying about the skin being dark. I wasn't trying to argue or anything, just stating how it appeared to me. I can totally relate to the picture difficulty, I have a DSLR and I still struggle to get accurate representations. Ultimately what matters is how it performs out and about anyway, so I'm glad to hear it's did well there. I'm anxious to get mine back in the car and check it out. I wish I had access to the proper equipment to measure screen brightness as I'd love to test the new Xenarcs to find out if their new screen really is brighter, or if the pre-installed films are whats increasing it's brightness. I'd also like to compare a new Xenarc(unmodified) vs. an older Xenarc with the vikuiti upgrade. Would be beneficial info to those purchasing new Xenarcs.

Phatsacks

Once we get some pictures of the before and after 3m mods, and mgithens Denver Meet pictures, I (or anyone) can compile them for comparisons.

That matrix or series of pictures will more clearly show exactly what you get, what you can achieve, and if it's worth it.

$200 for a Lilliput 701 and these upgrades is a great deal.
$380ish for a Xenarc 700TSV, makes me want to spend the other $120 and get an transflective Lilliput. Which brings me to looking forward to mgithens comparison pictures at their next meet (he said he had a buddy who has the Lilliput transflective, while he just ordered the Xenarc transflective).

Also, not sure if it's my work computer, but I can't access either video.

Phatsacks

You can contact them, Duayn is very responsive. This would be good information.

Fallout

um, whats a 701tsv, is that new? anyways, i bought my xenarc the first week in july, so i dont think its a new new one, ill go check with xenarc tomorrow.

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Homebrew

I'm pretty sure that was a typo.

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