3m upgrades - Page 15

tolisn · 09-14-2007, 01:02 PM

Got mine in 5 days shipped to Greece. No questions asked

Wiredwrx · 09-14-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tolisn

Got mine in 5 days shipped to Greece. No questions asked

I ordered a while ago, and still have not gotten anything.

Time to try again.

Michael

Wiredwrx · 09-14-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by nst6563

the samples you should have gotten instead of all the same type are:

BEFII
DBEF
ESR

BEFIII is less effective than BEFII, it was just created as a thinner alternative however due to being thinner it loses it's effectiveness when compared to BEFII.

If after applying the BEFII 90/50 you experience Moire, you should try to switch to BEFII 90/24 as it is intended to reduce Moire.

take apart the backlight and apply the ESR film EVERYWHERE that light can reflect from.

Remove the stock films including Diffuser film.

Cut 2 BEFII pieces in opposite directions and apply those directly on top of the Backlight.

Cut a piece of the DBEF and apply this on top of the BEFII sheets.

LCD goes on last.

The ESR has >98% reflectivity across the light spectrum, this should reflect ANY and all light that makes it through the LCD and to the backlight increasing the brightness further.

The BEFII reflects the P2 light back to the ESR reflector in the form of P2 and P1. P1 passes through the BEFII.

DBEF is a reflective polarizer.

This is all information on 3M's website and should also be included in the literature they sent with the films. (you probably don't have the ESR and DBEF info included since you didn't order any)

Should I ask for DBEF II or DBEF E?

Michael

2k1Toaster · 09-14-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

Should I ask for DBEF II or DBEF E?

Michael

both. And ESR.

Homebrew · 09-14-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by changeip

The pictures in the walk thru in post 106 are not the same as my EBY-701 ... isnt that a 619? The LCd panel and backlight looks similiar but the electronics and connectors are different. There must be a few variations of this same unit as well. I will get more pics of mine this weekend when I swap it out for my Xenarc.

Nope, thats my xenarc.

2k1Toaster · 09-14-2007, 03:37 PM

Ok, well I have a bit of a break, so I will try to get as many photos up as I can.

This is for the Ex-Audio 7" Screen, which is also sold as the EBY-701 I believe. It is very similar to the 619 internally except the placement of the touchscreen ribbon is on the top right as opposed to the upper left hand side.

First, take your screen apart to get to the LCD housing. Note the metal frame that is all around:

Take that metal frame off. There are a few tabs that look like below. Just bend them out. Be careful as too much bending out will cause them to become brittle and break:

There is also a bunch of tape (mine was some black electrical tape taping the metal housing to the LCD.

And this is what should come off:

Now there are 2 metal clips. They are screwed on and then forced in. You need to unscrew them, and then gently pry up either with your nail or a screwdriver so it just pops off. Dont bend it. Just pop it off. There is 1 on each side:

The frame is also held in place by holes in the bracket fitting over bumps in the plastic. These bend really really easily, so a fingernail is best. Also when you apply pressure with your nailbe careful where you press as the parts you have already loosened will now bend and deform:

You should then get this:

And the LCD area should look like this:

Flip it over carefully (The LCD will scratch if you set down on something no good. Now you should see on the left side a small itty bitty connector. Flip up the ZIF holders and slide out the ribbon:

Holding this circuit board in are a bunch of tiny screws covered by plastic, and the plastic is held down by double sided tape. THere are holes in the plastic that are "supposed" to line up with the screws but mine didnt so I removed the plastic. The screws are tiny/. I had to use my smallest flathead jewel screwdriver and 1 of the screws the tip of the screwdriver wouldnt fit in, so I had to use the blade of an exacto to turn them out:

Now lift the controller up and swivel on the ribbon cables. Be careful as these are the lifelines of the LCD. Lay it flat on a surface:

Now take your LCD off and place it somewhere safe. Somewhere where a cat cant hurl a textbook at it and crack it...

Lika dis:

It will now look like this. Those are the stock films, and are not rectangular. I left those in but I guess I should have taken them out. I also did not apply ESR film because I didnt even realize about it until after I had disassembled/reassembled my screen 3 times. So there would be more to taking the backlight apart and getting the film on there. I stopped here:

Reassembly is opposite of reverse obviously. Those metal clips though became "spare pieces".

With the 3 extra films, I could not get it to close. So I left them out and just bent the tabs in extra hard sideways and down flat.

nst6563 · 09-14-2007, 03:57 PM

Took approximately 1 week for me to get mine from the time I hit submit on the site to the time they showed up in the mail. Never got any acknowledgement that the films were sent either. Hope your mailperson is decent though, the packing wasn't that great. just a bubble padded envelope with the films in a folder with a piece of cardboard to protect the edges not in the folder...not hard to bend/crease at all.

I'll get some pics this evening of mine and post them. The pics in post 106 may not be exact (I think those are of a Xenarc screen), but that metal frame is what I was talking about and looks like the same on my 701.

:EDIT: 2K1Toaster has the pics you need. I'll take some of my backlight with the ESR, then there should be a complete set of pics of both a Xenarc and Lilliput 701. The process is the same for both though

swift_gti · 09-14-2007, 04:25 PM

Thanks Guys.

I had a little time tonight so I've taken my screen apart again - I removed all 3 of the pre-installed films and re-assembled with the 2x BEFII & 1x DBEF.
When I tested this I could see dots all over the screen (these dots are visible on the backlight with everything turned off once I'd removed the 3 preinstalled films)

So I took it apart for a 3rd time

I put the very bottom pre-installed film back in and then the 2x BEFII & 1x DBEF - Now I can't see the dots when the screen it turned on. I guess the layer I put back in must be the 'diffuser'
I'm now left with 2 of the pre-installed films - One cloudy film thats slightly shiny on one side, and another film which appears to be a similar film to the BEFII.

I'm yet to test it in the sunlight, but taking these two films out does appear to have helped with the yellow tinge I noticed my screen had on everything!

Homebrew · 09-14-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

Ok, well I have a bit of a break, so I will try to get as many photos up as I can.

This is for the Ex-Audio 7" Screen, which is also sold as the EBY-701 I believe. It is very similar to the 619 internally except the placement of the touchscreen ribbon is on the top right as opposed to the upper left hand side.

First, take your screen apart to get to the LCD housing. Note the metal frame that is all around:

Take that metal frame off. There are a few tabs that look like below. Just bend them out. Be careful as too much bending out will cause them to become brittle and break:

There is also a bunch of tape (mine was some black electrical tape taping the metal housing to the LCD.

And this is what should come off:

Now there are 2 metal clips. They are screwed on and then forced in. You need to unscrew them, and then gently pry up either with your nail or a screwdriver so it just pops off. Dont bend it. Just pop it off. There is 1 on each side:

The frame is also held in place by holes in the bracket fitting over bumps in the plastic. These bend really really easily, so a fingernail is best. Also when you apply pressure with your nailbe careful where you press as the parts you have already loosened will now bend and deform:

You should then get this:

And the LCD area should look like this:

Flip it over carefully (The LCD will scratch if you set down on something no good. Now you should see on the left side a small itty bitty connector. Flip up the ZIF holders and slide out the ribbon:

Holding this circuit board in are a bunch of tiny screws covered by plastic, and the plastic is held down by double sided tape. THere are holes in the plastic that are "supposed" to line up with the screws but mine didnt so I removed the plastic. The screws are tiny/. I had to use my smallest flathead jewel screwdriver and 1 of the screws the tip of the screwdriver wouldnt fit in, so I had to use the blade of an exacto to turn them out:

Now lift the controller up and swivel on the ribbon cables. Be careful as these are the lifelines of the LCD. Lay it flat on a surface:

Now take your LCD off and place it somewhere safe. Somewhere where a cat cant hurl a textbook at it and crack it...

Lika dis:

It will now look like this. Those are the stock films, and are not rectangular. I left those in but I guess I should have taken them out. I also did not apply ESR film because I didnt even realize about it until after I had disassembled/reassembled my screen 3 times. So there would be more to taking the backlight apart and getting the film on there. I stopped here:

Reassembly is opposite of reverse obviously. Those metal clips though became "spare pieces".

With the 3 extra films, I could not get it to close. So I left them out and just bent the tabs in extra hard sideways and down flat.

That is pretty much identical to my xenarc as far as the lcd assembly goes. Just goes to show how much different brand monitors have in common.

-Kevin

nst6563 · 09-15-2007, 12:51 AM

ok, had to play dad and take the kids to the fair and see the Carnies, eat carnival food, and ride some rides...but I was able to tackle my car screen afterwards and I've got some shots of the backlight ESR film.

Click on the thumbnails for a larger version

Here's the backlight after the LCD and other hardware has been removed (there's already pictures of that in this thread so no point in duplicating)

After you take the backlight assembly out of the white 'tray' it's in, you need to remove the CCFL from the backlight plate. It's held on by two thin reflective metal gaurds that simply pull off. Careful as to not bend the CCFL - don't want to break it and mount a mag-lite back there

After you remove the CCFL you're left with this:

Got a little ahead of myself and installed the ESR film without taking pics of it...shame...it's wicked cool stuff. So here's a shot of the BACK which is still super-shiny.

Here's another shot of the front side that I pulled away

And a shot of the backlight re-assembled.

And since I didn't have the sun outside to test with, I used my spotlight (1 million candlepower...wish I had a 3million but just can't justify it yet since I hardly use this one) The light is approximately 2-3 feet from the screen at a slight angle, and obviously the camera is at an angle.

And here are a couple shots from the drivers seat. No sunlight, but it handles a flash VERY well now.

Overall- I'd say on my car's lcd the combination of the ESR, 2xBEFII, 1xDBEF-0 has increased the brightness a LOT, makes it able to stand up to camera flashes and my spotlight much better (I think the ESR may have a role in this as it reflect nearly ALL the light coming in). As for the increase in brightness, I normally ran the screen at around 75% brightness - even at night or low light. I can honestly say that in those same night/low light conditions, I now have to turn the brightness down to around 25%...and it's still almost too bright.

*Note - I do NOT have a diffuser installed. The 3M literature stated this was optional, and I figured the less I have between the light and the screen the better.

I'll give it the real test outside tomorrow and post some shots.

:edit: Here's a shot where I aimed the spotlight directly at the screen (screen was on) and had the camera directly on top of the spotlight. You can see just how much light that ESR is reflecting back through the LCD as it drowns out the surroundings and the flash.

2k1Toaster · 09-15-2007, 01:19 AM

If the sun shots are much better with the ESR, then it looks like I will order some and be taking my lcd apart again!

hpprose · 09-15-2007, 09:45 AM

[quote=nst6563;1119045]
I'll give it the real test outside tomorrow and post some shots.
QUOTE]

Thanks nst6563. I appreciate the walk through. I have mine on order and I look forward to upgrading the display. Cannot wait to see the sun pictures.

nst6563 · 09-15-2007, 02:09 PM

ok...gave it the real test. no spotlights or camera flashes here... I used what nature intended

Here are the results.

Nice glare right? yeah, ticked me off. Really - that's what I started with was a glare problem. Ambient light visibility is a lot better than it was before the films, but the glare hasn't changed a bit since I'm getting the glare and reflections off the touchscreen and not the LCD itself. So, what I did for a little experiment was to take the Diffuser that was in the backlight, and put it OVER the touchscreen... those results are below.

*HUGE* difference from the first shot above. Things are a LOT fuzzier...but a drastic improvement nonetheless.

And a close-up shot of the GPS screen with the diffuser in place to show just how much fuzzier/blurred it is.

I think the diffuser makes a HUGE difference in the glare and reflections, however it also makes things a lot blurrier - catch22 I think. I'm going to leave the diffuser in place for a while to see how things go. I know one thing that will improve it is if I can run the resolution at the native 800x480 but so far have been unsuccessful in doing so.

I may also take some pictures with a better camera. This Canon SD600 Digital Elph just doesn't take very good pictures for a canon. A LOT of noise even in high light conditions and the manual mode is so cumbersome it's not worth messing with. I'd use the Digital Rebel XT we have, but the only lenses we have a minimal length of 28mm, which I can't get far enough away from the screen in the car unless I'm in the back seat at which isn't the same angle as the driver's/passenger's seats.

:edit: removed the diffuser as it actually made it worse half the time so it was much easier to deal with the glare than a blurry washed out picture. Still think it's much better in the daytime than it was before.

Wiredwrx · 09-15-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by nst6563

ok...gave it the real test. no spotlights or camera flashes here... I used what nature intended

Here are the results.

Nice glare right? yeah, ticked me off. Really - that's what I started with was a glare problem. Ambient light visibility is a lot better than it was before the films, but the glare hasn't changed a bit since I'm getting the glare and reflections off the touchscreen and not the LCD itself. So, what I did for a little experiment was to take the Diffuser that was in the backlight, and put it OVER the touchscreen... those results are below.

*HUGE* difference from the first shot above. Things are a LOT fuzzier...but a drastic improvement nonetheless.

And a close-up shot of the GPS screen with the diffuser in place to show just how much fuzzier/blurred it is.

I think the diffuser makes a HUGE difference in the glare and reflections, however it also makes things a lot blurrier - catch22 I think. I'm going to leave the diffuser in place for a while to see how things go. I know one thing that will improve it is if I can run the resolution at the native 800x480 but so far have been unsuccessful in doing so.

I may also take some pictures with a better camera. This Canon SD600 Digital Elph just doesn't take very good pictures for a canon. A LOT of noise even in high light conditions and the manual mode is so cumbersome it's not worth messing with. I'd use the Digital Rebel XT we have, but the only lenses we have a minimal length of 28mm, which I can't get far enough away from the screen in the car unless I'm in the back seat at which isn't the same angle as the driver's/passenger's seats.

:edit: removed the diffuser as it actually made it worse half the time so it was much easier to deal with the glare than a blurry washed out picture. Still think it's much better in the daytime than it was before.

Well, looks promising. I wonder if the anti reflection sheet that 3M has, forgot the name, would improve the situation, with out the blurriness, though I might be willing to deal with blurry for better day visibility.

Can't wait to get my samples.

Michael

nst6563 · 09-15-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

Well, looks promising. I wonder if the anti reflection sheet that 3M has, forgot the name, would improve the situation, with out the blurriness, though I might be willing to deal with blurry for better day visibility.

Can't wait to get my samples.

Michael

I think the anti-glare/anti-reflection film you're talking about is the ARMR-200. I did order a sample sheet of that, however they only sent a piece barely big enough to cover the screen on my blackberry. Suppose I could put it on a portion of the screen and see how that goes.

Went to Best buy and staples today to see what they had in the lines of anti-glare/anti-reflection ...didn't have squat unfortunately. I saw somewhere on the forum that someone posted a link to CDW which had a 5-pack of the ARMR-200 films.... found the link
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...px?EDC=1189312

it's tempting...