3m upgrades - Page 16

parksgm · 09-15-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

Well, looks promising. I wonder if the anti reflection sheet that 3M has, forgot the name, would improve the situation, with out the blurriness, though I might be willing to deal with blurry for better day visibility.

Can't wait to get my samples.

Michael

I'm curious...why wouldn't a dulling aerosol spray like Testor's Dull Coat work? For those who aren't familar, it's an aerosol spray used for modeling that gives a flat finish to whatever surface it's sprayed on. Flat = non-reflective to my mind...and since it's an aerosol, it could be applied as liberally or as sparingly as one desired, and reapplied as often as needed.

If I have a moment or two during the next week, I'll see if I can find some and test it...I have an old touch screen that I'm willing to sacrifice.

thermoptic · 09-16-2007, 12:25 AM

This is an awesome thread. Great photo and video work!

I was reviewing the 3M Anti-Reflective AR-Mx200 literature and I think the AR-M200 and AR-MP200 are superior to the AR-MR200. I conclude this since the AR-MR200 brochure states expected lifetime of only 3-6 months. Now if AR-MP200 uses permanent adhesive I'm hoping it is different from the AR-MR200. Maybe the fingerprint layer wears out first from heavy stylus usage?

AR Product Family

AR-MR200

AR-M200 & AR-MP200

AR-M200 Film and AR-MP200 Properties
• Specular Reflectance <1.1%
• Transmission 93%
• Haze <= 7.0%
• Gloss at 60° 90-115 gloss units
• Adhesion Cross hatch with Scotch® #610 tape - No delamination
• Hardness => 3H pencil hardness on hardcoat side
• Abrasion 10 rubs #0000 steel wool at 160 g/cm2 - Light scratching
• Chemical resistance Window cleaner, IPA, motor oil, coffee, permanent marker
or water - No effect
• Flexibility 2cm mandrel - No crack in tension or compression
• Surface energy <30 dynes/cm
• Substrate thickness .005″ polyester (PET)
• Format 13″ x 22″ (330mm x 559mm)
• PSA peel force to glass >1000 g/in

ARMR-200 Properties
• Specular Reflectance <= 1.1%
• Transmission > 92%
• Gloss 75-110 gloss units
• Thickness Base 5 mil, Adhesive 1 mil
• Pencil Hardness >= 3H
• Durability 10 rubs at 160g/in2
• Solvent Resistance Window cleaner, IPA, 10W-40 oil, Coke®, coffee, Sharpie®, water
• Environmental Heat/Humidity 65°C/95% RH for 500 hrs
• Dry Heat 85°C for 500 hrs
• Thermal Shock Resistance (Hot/Cold) -35°C to 85°C, 1hr cycles for 8 days

I requested samples awhile back when I was planning to upgrade my Shark SHK804 8.4", but after cracking the case I saw the TORiSAN LCD and I didn't have a good feeling. I received a follow up e-mail from Linda at 3M asking what I was doing and what did I really need. I caught the DIY LCD kit bug and dropped this film upgrade endeavor.

I am now rolling my own transflective LCD display and it looks like I could use a 3M AR film to protect the surface of the panel, since I will be using IR touchscreen with no glass. I may also need UV protection but that is another story. I think I'll request the AR-M200 or AR-MP200. Did anyone request these versus the AM-R200, which appears to be too small? If so, was the sheet large enough to fit an 8.4" screen? I wonder if I need optical bonding equipment for the AR-MP200?

I will run this by Duayn.

parksgm · 09-17-2007, 01:05 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by parksgm

I'm curious...why wouldn't a dulling aerosol spray like Testor's Dull Coat work? For those who aren't familar, it's an aerosol spray used for modeling that gives a flat finish to whatever surface it's sprayed on. Flat = non-reflective to my mind...and since it's an aerosol, it could be applied as liberally or as sparingly as one desired, and reapplied as often as needed.

If I have a moment or two during the next week, I'll see if I can find some and test it...I have an old touch screen that I'm willing to sacrifice.

No thoughts, anyone?

Wiredwrx · 09-17-2007, 01:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by parksgm

No thoughts, anyone?

I think you might find people somewhat hesitatnt to spray a liquid of any sort on to thier TS.

If you have one you are willing to potentially fry, then go for it.

Michael

thermoptic · 09-17-2007, 01:47 AM

Err, I would practice on a cheap sheet of glass from Home Depot or Lowe's first, and make sure you hear the marble rattle.

I'm not an optical engineer but there are a number of concerns including application consistency (difficult to control without good equipment), chemical properties (glass adhesion), UV sensitivity (discoloration), etc. An MSDS sheet might help here? I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have been researching cheap AR coating solutions in the event that the 3M AR-MP200 film doesn't hack it. One website that caught my eye was an eye-glasses site:

$25 Dollar AR Coating
http://www.getarcoating.com/

Demo Videos (I wish they had brighter lights and he held the white glove further away)
http://www.getarcoating.com/pages/benefits

It's an interesting technology but they have probably streamlined the process for small lens. The question is whether they support my large coke-bottle 8.4" lens. You see, I have really bad eyes...

They probably wouldn't do LCD panels...at least not for $25.

thermoptic · 09-17-2007, 02:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by thermoptic

I wonder if I need optical bonding equipment for the AR-MP200?

I will run this by Duayn.

Yep, you need special bonding equipment here to apply and remove.

It appears that AR-MR200 is the way to go for the touchscreen AR coating.

thermoptic · 09-17-2007, 02:38 AM

A review of the AR-MR200 on an laptop screen (good photos here):

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-...ng.1325.0.html

In direct sunlight:

nst6563 · 09-17-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by thermoptic

A review of the AR-MR200 on an laptop screen (good photos here):

In direct sunlight:

Looks like I'll be seeking some ARMR200 for my screen

antimatter · 09-17-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by thermoptic

A review of the AR-MR200 on an laptop screen (good photos here):

...
In direct sunlight:

Great post and great review. Looks like i will getting some from CDW. If anyone has any pictrure on how this performs on a touchscreen situation id like to see that.

Cheers

parksgm · 09-17-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

I think you might find people somewhat hesitatnt to spray a liquid of any sort on to thier TS.

If you have one you are willing to potentially fry, then go for it.

Michael

No way an aerosol would fry a touchscreen (even powered on). There's a physical barrier between the touchscreen wiring and the surface of the touchscreen. A sweaty finger poking the screen is likely more conductive than an aerosol lacquer spray would be. Also, the touchscreen itself is a relatively inexpensive component...replacement screens can be had for $40 or so.

Application consistency and UV stability are two valid criticisms. Neither of those issues are very much of a concern when applying the coating to an opaque surface, but transillumination really tends to highlight any defect. MSDS is a great idea, and one that I'll look into.

Wiredwrx · 09-17-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by parksgm

No way an aerosol would fry a touchscreen (even powered on). There's a physical barrier between the touchscreen wiring and the surface of the touchscreen. A sweaty finger poking the screen is likely more conductive than an aerosol lacquer spray would be. Also, the touchscreen itself is a relatively inexpensive component...replacement screens can be had for $40 or so.

I wasn't refering to the electronics embedded in the TS, and I was not thinking about the "force" of the spray. I was refering to the contacts, and the flat ribbon cable. They MIGHT be affected by a liquid, and/or the chemicals in the spray, and as a whole, we are cheap bastards (hence the reason for this entire thread, a cheap transflective, and the fact that people are trying to obtain the vikuiti products as free samples just proves it) so even 40 bucks is more then most poeple want to spend for failure.

Let us know if you try it though, I would like to see the results.

Michael

antimatter · 09-18-2007, 05:04 PM

Is anyone willing to send me extra's of their films that they didn't use. I dont think 3m samples are going to come through. They started asking all sorts of questions and wanted me to sign some sort agreement. I have yet to see anything materialize.

Any updates?

changeip · 09-18-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by antimatter

Is anyone willing to send me extra's of their films that they didn't use. I dont think 3m samples are going to come through. They started asking all sorts of questions and wanted me to sign some sort agreement. I have yet to see anything materialize.

Any updates?

If you want BEFII I have some left:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260160380168

If you purchase one of those and put a note in about it I will include a 7-8" sheet of DBEF-E 45 free - one of the samples they sent me that I didn't completely use.

Sam

antimatter · 09-18-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by changeip

If you want BEFII I have some left:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260160380168

If you purchase one of those and put a note in about it I will include a 7-8" sheet of DBEF-E 45 free - one of the samples they sent me that I didn't completely use.

Sam

I am going to wait until the end of the week and if i still recieve nothing i may be upto paying 20 bucks. Unless some other member wants to kick down for the cost of shipping..... Anyone have any extra ESR film?

dyne · 09-18-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by antimatter

I am going to wait until the end of the week and if i still recieve nothing i may be upto paying 20 bucks. Unless some other member wants to kick down for the cost of shipping..... Anyone have any extra ESR film?

Im piping in, too, incase anyone has some extra