3m upgrades - Page 26

Homebrew · 12-13-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by kuo

i think i've read through this thread at least 5 times now and i'm still a little confused as to what how these films are to be oriented. from my reading, this is how i understand it should be but again, i am a little confused so please correct me if i'm wrong.
ESR, Backlight, optional diffuser, BEFII, BEFII (90 degrees from first BEFII), DBEF (same orientation as lcd polarizer), polarizer and lcd, touch panel, optional ARMR-200 (which a few people don't recommend).

Thats the correct order. Though the ESR I would consider to be at the back of the backlight not really behind it. But thats really up to how you perceive it and to how your backlight is setup.

Quote: Originally Posted by kuo

now here are the things i am very unclear on.

does it matter which way the two layers of BEFII are oriented? from what i can tell, it is important that one is 90 degrees from the other but as far as which goes first i haven't a clue.

The orientation of the 2nd BEFII layer(layer closest to the lcd panel) decides which viewing angle is the best. A vertically oriented 2nd layer of BEFII would mean the up/down viewing angle will be better than the side/side viewing angle. A horizontally oriented 2nd layer of BEFII would mean the side/side viewing angle will be better than the up/down viewing angle. How much better I'm unsure.

Quote: Originally Posted by kuo

so what i'm thinking is match the DBEF to the polarizer and then arrange the BEFII so that the first layer is the same orientation as the DBEF with the 2nd layer of BEFII 90 degrees to the first. please correct me if i'm wrong.

That's most likely how I would do it if I were to do it again. I'm still unclear on out how to determine the polarizer's orientation. Having not examined a polarizer, maybe it's simple and i'm just unaware. But at this point I have no guidance to provide on doing that.

Quote: Originally Posted by kuo

another thing i'm unsure about is if there is a front and back to the DBEF. i am guessing no. as for the BEFII, apparently one side you can see through and the other side is reflective. 2k1toaster posted that the side you can see through faces the lcd and the reflective side faces the backlight which makes sense to me. can anyone confirm or deny?

There is a front and back to DBEF. I highly recommend using the notches in the sheet to keep track of which side is up on both the BEFII and DBEF. Before performing this upgrade, you really should read the applications guides for all the films you plan to use.

Quote: Originally Posted by kuo

i would like to give this a try but i looked on ebay today and couldn't find any dbef available. does anyone know where i could buy some? i have 2 screens, maybe 3 that i would like to do this on.

I've looked high and low and can't find a source for the DBEF. I've located pretty much all the others, but that one eludes me.

Homebrew · 12-13-2007, 04:47 PM

And for everyone's future reference, here are links to the product brochures and application guides.

BEFII 90/50
Brochure: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--
App Guide: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

DBEF-E
Brochure: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--
App Guide: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

DBEF-II
Brochure: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--
App guide: None listed, I can't imagine it being different from the DBEF-E

ESR
Brochure: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--
App Guide: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

Quick link to the Vikuiti site, already with the menu open to show these films. BEFII being displayed.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...hancementfilm/

Hope this helps.

-Kevin

kelmk · 12-13-2007, 05:12 PM

What's the trick to getting 3M to send out samples? I have tried twice about 6 months apart and different address and nothing.
I would buy them if it was possible to buy just one sheet. Does anyone dell this stuff?

Homebrew · 12-13-2007, 05:41 PM

Digikey sells the BEFII and ESR. I haven't found anywhere selling the DBEF. I'm not sure there's a trick to getting 3M to send them. I'm sure after this thread started they were inundated with requests and they reached a point where they had to become more strict on whom they send samples. This stuff isn't intended for end users, so they are only looking to send samples to legitimate business whom they also believe will purchase a significant amount of these films. I can't speak for how things were when this thread started, but I would say now you either have to be a legitimate business or at least be very convincing that you are. Not only that, but if you appear that you would only be purchasing small quantities, then I'd say you're less likely to get samples. Remember, this is all about drumming up business for them. They send samples to gain customers. Sending samples out to people who won't be purchasing the product is a waste from a business perspective, so the more requests they get that don't sound like interested businesses, the more screening they're going to do and the less likely it will become that we will be able to get samples. This happens time and time again in hobby communities.

-Kevin

kuo · 01-05-2008, 11:55 AM

thanks for all of the info homebrew. now that the holidays are over i am ready to do this upgrade. i've got my sheets of befII 90/50 and esr from digikey and i bought dbef-p2 off of ebay. it seems like the only difference between the dbef-II and dbef-p2 is that the p2 version sticks to the lcd panel. to determine which direction the polarizers on the lcd are oriented could the following work? hold the dbef and lcd up to a light. then turn the dbef 90 degrees to see which orientation allows more light to pass through. the one that allows the most light through should be the correct orientation that matches the polarizing direction of the lcd panel and the dbef.

kuo · 01-06-2008, 04:55 PM

i've gone through a few pieces of this stuff trying to get it applied without bubbles. i ended up with just a few small bubbles but it still looks pretty bad once it's all put back together. does anyone have any dbef-ii that i could buy from them? i am pretty fed up with the p2 and the bubbles.

JCzajka · 01-10-2008, 11:33 PM

Got my samples in the mail today. I ordered them weeks ago and forgot about them. Actually the other day I open an e-mail account I rarely check and saw I had the typical can e-mail from 3M.

The e-mail asking what my company did, how many units a year, etc.

And then, with out any other input from me, besides the first request, my samples just show up!

FirebirdTN · 01-18-2008, 06:50 AM

Must....not...let...thread...die...!!!

Just kidding. Something has been on my mind lately though-Santa was not able to bring my monitor for Christmas (damn you Dave Ramsey).

Anyway, in hindsight, maybe that was a good thing, as the LED backlit models have been available since close to Christmas.

My question is this: How worthwhile is it to attempt this mod on the newer LED backlight models? I see they have the transreflective LCDs available with the LED technology, so I know it is still an improvement, but...

I doubt this is the case, but has anyone had the opportunity to really compare these monitors? Such as Old Transreflective vs. New stock LED backlight, or stock LED backlight vs new transreflective?

Thankx,

-Alan

Zebelkhan · 02-06-2008, 07:41 PM

Subscribed...

quantum · 02-06-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by FirebirdTN

I doubt this is the case, but has anyone had the opportunity to really compare these monitors? Such as Old Transreflective vs. New stock LED backlight, or stock LED backlight vs new transreflective?

Thankx,

-Alan

I have, side by side. It was a 7" panel made by the exact same company (AUO). The first one I got was a CCFL, and it was pretty cool, 400nits. Compared to the Lilli's of the same time frame (1.5 years ago) it was way better. Then, I got a hold of one of the first LED backlight 7" to roll out of AUO, and it blew them all away. Same specs basically, 400 nits.

I notice the whites were whiter, and the colors were sharper. That was my experience. The one in my car is the 7" LED version, daytime is fine, night time I dim it way down with volumouse and it is just right.

I also have a 600nit Dual CCFL LCD from them, 7". That one kicks ***! I wonder what that would be like with a 3M upgrade?

.

kuo · 02-07-2008, 10:38 AM

just received a sample of dbef from 3m. i'm going to do the upgrade on one of my xenarcs this weekend. if there is enough time i will do a comparison of the mp3car transflective, the stock xenarc, and the 3m upgraded xenarc (xenarc's are 2004 models).

kuo · 02-17-2008, 01:39 AM

i am a week late but last weekend we ended up having my wife's family over and we had a big chinese new years thing so i didn't get it done. but tonight was the night and i am fairly happy with the results. i took some pictures comparing a stock xenarc to the 3m upgraded xenarc. these are night time shots with flash and a work light shining on the screens.

the order of my sheets are esr behind backlight, diffuser, bef2 ||, bef2 =, dbef2, and amr film on top of touch panel.

if tomorrow is clear and sunny i will get some day time shots after church. i'm also going to compare the mp3car transflective with the 3m upgraded xenarc. i expect that the transflective will still be much better because even though the brightness is enhanced by these films, the glare from the touch panel is only reduced slightly by the amr.

hari-bhari · 02-17-2008, 01:44 PM

excellent work

greatwhite · 02-17-2008, 03:30 PM

Hmm, those pics are actually kind of confusing.

The first two I would say the upgraded screen is on the right, but the last pic it appears there is little to no difference between the two screens.....................

Which is the modified screen in the last picture?

kuo · 02-17-2008, 03:51 PM

the upgraded screen in the last pic is the one on the left. when taking pictures of the screens the angle made a really big difference. in person you can definitely tell that the upgraded screen is brighter but i don't think the difference is quite as drastic as the first two pictures would have you believe. still i think this upgrade is very worth while. i would also mention for anyone attempting this upgrade, that you should put the diffuser sheet on top of the light guide before the bef2 sheets. in my first attempt i left the diffuser out because i read that it was not needed and the bef2 clung to the light guide in some places giving me very visible and annoying bright spots. i think it was due to static.

unfortunately today is overcast, but i went ahead and took some pic's and videos anyways. i also did a comparison with my mp3car transflective. i'll post them up after i finish upgrading the second xenarc that i have. should have them up in a few hours.