thermoptic

Man, it would feel great to watch that final rocket lift off.


I can't connect to my main PC and I don't have a laptop. I threw a Linux KNOPPIX CD into a nearby shell PC (no HDD) and pulled a few test images from the web. Note that I think the color may not be set to true color on the Linux setup and I am too tired to dig around. See the last pictures below, I think it should appear with a smoother gradient.

I turned up the brightness to highest on the LCD inverter potentiometer and I disabled the camera flash. This yields a longer exposure and I don't have a tripod mount. I viewed 1024x768 and 800x600 resolutions. The pictures below are 800x600. I can also tweak the ALR-1400 via the serial port control, but I may have to roll my own control software. I need to contact Digital View to see if they can provide something.

It's been a hell of week. I need to sleep. More tomorrow or Sunday.

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thermoptic

I received the inverter cabling on Saturday. It turns out that the ALR-1400 only supplies 12V on the CNB1 inverter connector. The NEC 84PW041 inverter needs 5V. Also, the 5V on the CNB2 connector is limited to 500 mA. The inverter needs 5V @ 1.5 amps. This meant direct integration into the PC power supply cabling.

I started prototyping the mounting for the panel, inverter and ALR-1400. This was to better understand how things would go together. In the end, I think I will get the aluminum CNC drilled, as my measurement and manual drilling skills were lacking. I'll discuss this later.

I am still having problems with the EPIA-EN controlling the ALR-1400. With the LVDS-07 gone (FINALLY!!!!!!!1111one!!!!11one!!!), I set the BIOS to CRT and booted Win XP into VGA mode (via F8). I uninstalled all the displays and video driver, then reinstalled. I still have to boot into VGA mode with 640x480. Everytime I select anything other than the VGA mode setting, I lose the video! I may need to include the EPIA-EN on the rockets as well.

I couldn't wait until next weekend to get some outdoor pictures. I leveraged the shell PC with KNOPPIX and moved the rig out on the front porch. These were taken in the late afternoon, with direct sunlight exposure. The KNOPPIX setup has no problems with the ALR-1400 receiving 1024x768 @ 75 Hz. I used 800x600 @ 75 Hz for the photos below.

For reference, I pulled out the Shark SHK804. I set brightness to 80% with contrast at 50%. The SHK804 had huge glare which gave the auto-focus some problems. See the last photo below.

The NEC NL8060BC21-03 rocks in direct sunlight!! I really wanted to get video, but I needed to dig out the equipment, charge battery, etc. Maybe next weekend. I want to get some high-noon shots with intense sunlight exposure! I also want to add the IRTOUCH touchscreen with the 3M AR film. This will add some reflection and decrease brightness a bit.

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thermoptic

Here are a few close-ups of the prototype mounting. I purchased a DIY aluminum electronics enclosure and scrounged up mounting hardware that I had on hand. I need to find a cost effective way to get a backplate cut and drilled to my specifications. I have precise measurements from the various specifications. I need to explore the dash internals to understand how much clearance is available.

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thermoptic

Now that things are winding down on this front, I wanted to step back summarize the BOM. I also wanted to compare cost-to-date against my $800 budget cap.


Not so bad, right? Well, the astute reader will realize that I am wearing my Enron accounting hat.


So, I have spent about $945 total. Let's not get into tax and shipping, it's not that much. Note that Digikey sells the IRTOUCH TS and the 3M AR-MR200 film. You will need to find an off-the-shelf cable assembly for the NEC 84PW041, or crimp your own. Whenever possible, I leverage a machine assembled wiring assembly and splice into my application.

I still need to remove the potentiometer and wire in the inverter brightness controls to the ALR-1400. This should be the last bit of tweaking, other than the mounting hardware. I will try to use a small USB hub to consolidate the IRTOUCH and a USB-to-RS-232 adapter into a single USB line that I run to the dash.

Given my display budget overrun, I will definitely be doing my own fab work on the dash. If I draft the measurements for the aluminum plate on the PC, I can print out a drill template at actual size and avoid the parallax errors from marking the holes with a mechanical pencil.

I will stop posting to the IRTOUCH thread and combine with this thread. Hopefully I will get some pictures and video of this setup with the IRTOUCH in direct sunlight this weekend. Note I have resumed my dash fabrication journey here:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/fabr...brication.html

thermoptic

I resolved the issue with the loss of VGA upon boot into Windows XP with help from members on the VIA tkArena forum. See this thread. This was a common problem. If you have the EPIA-EN with a VGA connection here are a few pointers:

• Set the Display Device to CRT + LCD in the Advanced Chipset BIOS menu. For my NEC panel, I use Panel Type 0x1. If you have been scratching your head wondering what the 16 panel types represent, martinh on the tkArena found the mapping.
• You may need to boot into safe mode <F8>, remove the VIA/S3G UniChrome Pro IGP in Device Manager->Display Adapters, reboot, and reinstall the driver. You will end up with two entries in the Monitor group: (1) Plug-and-Play Monitor and (2) Digital Flat Panel (800x600).
• When the "(Default Monitor)..." number 2 is selected, DO NOT select the "Extend my Desktop option to this monitor". This will split the screen and you will not be able to see the Display Settings options to disable (when you right-click->Properties on the desktop). I tried grabbing the window off screen, <ALT><TAB>-ing, task manager access, etc. In the end, I invoked MMC via Start->Run and loaded compmgnt.msc to access Device Manager and remove the VIA/S3G UniChrome Pro IGP adapter.
• After installing the UniChrome Pro drivers from the VIA site, Microsoft Update offers newer WHQL drivers, which I installed. Once the driver (either older or latest) is installed, the ALR-1400 was displaying the 800x600 @ 60 Hz on only part of the screen. Since I don't yet have a solution for the software control of the ALR-1400 (using RS-232), I decided to un-check the "Hide modes that this monitor cannot display". This opened up the "11" option on the dial. I clicked the List All Modes button for the Adapter and picked the "800 x 600 @ 75Hz". BOOM, the display snapped into field and it looks beautiful.

I'll send a request to Digital View to see if they will provide the Display Config Tool for the serial port. It looks like I don't really need it, but I like to know what's possible. If you want hard buttons, you can shell out $50 for their controller button board. The serial control cable is $11 (coincidence, I think not). It appears that you can do more with this connection versus the button board. You could roll you own serial cable and solder onto the board. I personally like detachable connections. Note that all of the connectors on the ALR-1400 have latching holds, so they will function well in the Car PC environment. I'm delaying metal backplate design until I can fit the IR TS in the spare dash. This will take time.

mrbean_phillip

Hey Thermoptic,
Thanx for all the data in this thread, I too have orderd one of these LCD's, and will be receiving it within the next week (hopefully)

I am currently using a 7" Xenarc 700TSV, but it is totally useless in direct light, and I am hoping this NEC will alleviate the problem. I owe a 10.4" too, but are having the same problem.

I will be driving the NEC directly from the COmmell LS-372 onboard LVDS transceiver chip, it should be better than the one on your VIA, as it's an Industrial spec board - let's keep our fingers crossed.

I will feedback once I have it up and running, I still need to order the LVDS cable - I will probably get the same one you have, as my motherboard uses the standard connector for LVDS, same as yours on your Via board.

Talk to you later, and watching this with interest.

Kind regards,
MrBean

__________________
F6 Tornado Project Log - nearing completion

thermoptic

Cool. Well, it's good to see all of this ranting was helpful. I was really hoping the panel would work with the LVDS-07G to open up this solution to more EPIA owners. Oh well. This is an great panel.


The LS-372 is a sexy devil, but a little pricey. I suspect the GMA X3100 will wipe the floor with the VIA CN700. Hopefully your BIOS will offer more panel video control than what the EPIA-EN provides. Good luck with the integration. If you need to re-wire the Hirose connector, a medium-sized safety pin is a great tool.


I can't wait for the weekend to snap more pictures. I noticed the attachment menu lists a 4 GB limit for ZIP files. Has anyone tested this limit? I can attach a zip of high quality pictures and videos. Of course, I don't want to crash the forums. I may need to leverage one of the sharing external sites. turbocad6, what do you recommend?

mrbean_phillip

Will keep you posted, there's a few handy settings in the Bios, and using this panel will make creating my WinXPE image a little easier too.....

a Pity you couldn't get the LVDS-07G to work proper, would have made for a more simplistic setup, less hardware, etc....

Well, I have ordered the LVDS cable, and will remap the pins on the motherboard side, so all should be well.

Looking forward to more pics, especially direct-sunlight shots.

Take care then.

__________________
F6 Tornado Project Log - nearing completion

thermoptic

I am attempting to attach a 32 MB ZIP file containing hires photos of the ITROUCH and NEC NL8060BC21-03 in direct sunlight.

[ cross fingers ]

Attached Files

	NEC_IRTOUCH_Sunlight.zip (31.26 MB, 66 views)

thermoptic

I am attaching a video, which consists of the NEC panel with IRTOUCH compared to the Shark SHK-804 in direct sunlight. I don't have a light meter, so I can't provide a lux value. Let's just say that it's really freaking bright! As you can see from the hires pictures in the previous post, I am on the very edge of the garage so I don't have a blue sky directly above the camera and the screen, but I do have direct sunlight.

The IRTOUCH had no problems with tracking a shiny metal wand (from magnetic pick-up tool) in direct sunlight. This has to be worst case pointer object (small diameter, reflective) and touchscreen conditions. I wanted to officially verify outdoor IR functionality before I fab this into my dash. Well, fab operations have the green light!

I removed the touchscreen slowly so you can compare against the raw NEC screen. From the hires pictures in the previous link, you may notice that the 3M AR-MR200 film has bubbled up near the edges on the touchscreen. This is a little annoying and I don't know if it can be fixed.

Note that I still haven't tweaked the ALR-1400 settings (using stock) or video driver brightness settings. I believe the ERG LED rail with inverter can generate about 900 nits (unconfirmed), so I do have the option of a brighter backlight. The NEC stock setup I'm using is 600 nits. In hindsight, the NEC 84PW031 inverter may have been a better fit for the ALR-1400 as it is 12V. The problem is that the 84PW031 datasheet doesn't list the maximum current requirements for the inverter. Note that the 84PW031 (+12V) is about $25.00, whereas the 84PW041 (+5V) that I'm using retails for $35.00.

I filmed the video with a Panasonic PV-GS150 video camera. I don't have a camera tripod and auto-focus was enabled, so this video is not as good as what you see live. The attached video is 25 MB. I have a 4.8 GB master, but until we all have fiber-to-the-house, this is not practical to distribute.

Attached Files

	NEC_IRTOUCH_vs_SHK804_InSunlight.zip (24.19 MB, 73 views)

mrbean_phillip

Hello Thermoptic,

Quick question:

Did you use a connector to connect to the CCFL Inverter board, the one that supplies the inverter, and where you do briteness control? or did you solder to the backside?

If you did use a cable, where did you get it from?

Thanx for all the photos and video, it looks stunning If that's how the NEC looks in direct sunlight, I will be very happy - mine won't have a touchscreen, as I don't want/need one - I am using an industrial stinless steel trackball as my primary input device. I hate fingermarks on my LCDs.

__________________
F6 Tornado Project Log - nearing completion

thermoptic

I had Duayn at MCT built the custom LVDS cable, originally used for the LVDS-07G. He found the right connector. I have since cannibalized the cable. I cut the inverter connector off and soldier the 5V power and ground to the main power cable. The BRTC backlight control signal is connected to the ALR-1400 via the CNB1 connector. I currently have the BRTI and BRTH wired to a 10k potentiometer. A maximum voltage drop of 2.5V will yield 100% brightness. I still need to remove this pot and wire into CNB1 on the ALR-1400.

Connector Details:
CN1 socket (Inverter side): 53261-0871 (MOLEX Inc.)
Adaptable plug: 51021-0800 (MOLEX Inc.)

I subscribed to your F6 worklog thread. I did not have time to read everything this weekend, but I am so jealous of your budget! As you are one to go above and beyond to do it right, you may want to purchase the inverter and LED rail from ERG. CCFL is for the birds. If I recall correctly, you can achieve 950 nit brightness on this panel with the ERG lighting solution. For the brightness controls, I would develop an photo detector circuit to auto adjust the brightness. My Motorola Q9h global cellphone has photo-detector circuit screen brightness. It works very well with preserving battery life.

See my earlier posts for details on ERG.

mrbean_phillip

Thanx Thermoptic, I will most likely do a simple photo-voltaic setup to control briteness

In my case, wrt the inverter, I could probably solder smc sil pins onto the reverse-side of the inverter for now, to test and see how the LCD runs - I have decided to get the LED backlight solution I saw a few posts ago, as it will be better wrt overall briteness than the ccfl.

I will keep you posted, thanx once again for your valuable contributions :flowers:

Kind regards,
MrBean

__________________
F6 Tornado Project Log - nearing completion

thermoptic

That's the spirit! I'll be curious to see the results of the LED backlighting. Maybe I don't want to know, since I will be tempted to upgrade. I have no display budget left!


No worries. I document as I go so I have a trail of bread crumbs to follow. I just hope MP3car has this forum on a rotated back-up schedule with geographically redundant backing stores (i.e. salt mine vault). There is a lot of valuable information on this site.

The dynamic backlight control is the final remaining electrical task. Here's some information on sensors, manufacturer offerings, and part accessibility:

Light Sensor Comparison
http://www.engr.udayton.edu/faculty/...gginc/tp4.html

TAOS Light To Voltage Products
http://www.taosinc.com/category.asp?cateid=20

TAOS Part Search - Mouser
https://www.mouser.com/catalog/633/164.PDF

Microsemi Visible Light Sensor Products
http://www.microsemi.com/catalog/par...S&LVP=1&LVP1=0

Ambient Sensor Part Search - Digikey
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...GHT%20DETECTOR

I think one of the evaluation EVBs (i.e. Microsemi MiniEval) would provide an easy way to tweak the desired level (via pot) and allow to dynamically track with the light-to-voltage IC. I'll research more and update with a selection.

It appears that the Light-To-Digital products would allow you to create a ultra cheap light meter using an existing uC with I2C bus. The light meters I have seen retail for over $100.

thermoptic

Now that I have my Win XP install polished, I downloaded some of the test images that I had viewed under the KNOPPIX boot CD. It turns out that the KNOPPIX CD was not configured for 24-bit color. Under WinXP, the 24-bit color gradient is smooth as silk. I wanted to snap a few pictures but my camera is dead from the weekend photos. Recharging now . . .

Here are the links to the photos I used for the color photos in a prior post.

WalVisions - Test Patterns Home
http://www.walvisions.com/TestPatterns.html

WalVisions - Alternating Pixels (try viewing from different angles)
http://www.walvisions.com/PattPages/...ng_pixels.html

How Good Is Your Color?
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test24.png
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test18.png
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test4.png

Kodak True Color Image Set
http://r0k.us/graphics/kodak/

I also stumbled upon a display test chart generation tool called Imatest. You can download a free evaluation and generate some wicked cool test patterns. On my main desktop monitor, a Samsung SyncMaster 226BW, I see faint green flickers, one-pixel wide.

Imatest
http://www.imatest.com/docs/testcharts.html

The generated TIFF files are 2 - 16 MB in size. I have resized a few to 800x600 and attached below. I can see the green flicker on these smaller pictures as well. It's faint but visible. Err, maybe I need to check the warranty on the 226BW? I'll view on the NEC panel after I submit this reply.

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